There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?

But you are anything but balanced. Most of the stuff you write is solidly left-wing. So criticising them is only going to be in one direction, in much the same way that a centrist person will always criticise someone like Jeremy Corbyn from only one direction.

If it drives you insane, then stop writing such extreme stuff. In this thread alone, you have mentioned Stormfront, and suggested people who like the article should hang out with them. Then you've labelled the article racist and said it was a white guy who wrote it for white guys.

That's inflammatory stuff, and it's right that people pull you up on it. If you don't like it, then don't write such unhinged guff in the first place.

It's meant to be inflammatory. Someone has to point this stuff out as we're up against extreme right wing bias, and yeah, it's written by a white guy for white guys. I regard your stance as extreme too (you'll be aghast at that I'm sure). There you go again, calling my posts unhinged guff. That's not debate and you know it, it's a superior attitude and shows you have the inability to demonstrate any humility when someone is actually engaging with you. It's lecturing - talking down to people. As I said before, sanctimonious. It's a shame.

[JamesWales]

Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?

You make this great thing about being balanced, but I can honestly say that I could comfortably count the number of times I’ve been surprised by a political opinion of yours on the fingers of one hand - you’re exactly the same as many of us on here in that your political opinions aren’t balanced they’re predictable.

But Bob, your starting position is always one of a solid-far left position. Any attempt to row back from that towards the centre will inevitably be in one direction.

Start a topic in a balanced way and you will see me write the pro's and con's on it. Start off by ranting about the Tories and how everyone is racist when they aren't, and you'll see a push back.

You can read bmy first post on here, on page 1. Three posts in and Citizens Nephew is talking about Stormfront and how it's all racist. My response is about public services - it's far more balanced in tone and conclusion.

[JamesWales]

Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?

It's meant to be inflammatory. Someone has to point this stuff out as we're up against extreme right wing bias, and yeah, it's written by a white guy for white guys. I regard your stance as extreme too (you'll be aghast at that I'm sure). There you go again, calling my posts unhinged guff. That's not debate and you know it, it's a superior attitude and shows you have the inability to demonstrate any humility when someone is actually engaging with you. It's lecturing - talking down to people. As I said before, sanctimonious. It's a shame.

No, I call it guff because you offer no evidence for your opinions, whereas I will typically back mine up.

You say it's racist (if so, report it as a hate crime)
You say it's only written for white men, when the majority of the Daily Mails readership aren't white men
You say I'm extreme for objecting to you labelling anyone who agrees with the article as being aligned with Stormfront (A KKK website!)
You say I'm lecturing, but I've raised issues of public services and suggested that a balanced diet of internet news is healthy
You say you are up against extreme right wing bias, when four of the top 6 news brands in the UK are left or left of centre.

https://pressgazette.co.uk/most-popular-websites-news-uk-monthly/

Basically, you are just saying stuff that isn't true and you are doing it in a totally divisive and inflamatory way. If you are going to throw crap around on the internet, you should at least be able to back it up.

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?

If you are going to throw crap around on the internet, you should at least be able to back it up.

Is this the kind of thing you mean?:

How do you deal with a sanctimonious person?

When confronted by them, don't give them what they want. You may agree with them, disagree with them, kind of sympathize with them- just don't show it or say anything. Let your silence and inaction speak for itself. Because whether or not you agree or disagree, your reaction props them up, validates them.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?

But Bob, your starting position is always one of a solid-far left position. Any attempt to row back from that towards the centre will inevitably be in one direction.

Start a topic in a balanced way and you will see me write the pro's and con's on it. Start off by ranting about the Tories and how everyone is racist when they aren't, and you'll see a push back.

You can read bmy first post on here, on page 1. Three posts in and Citizens Nephew is talking about Stormfront and how it's all racist. My response is about public services - it's far more balanced in tone and conclusion.

Far left? I’m not sure about that, but my point is that if you want political balance from your contributors on here, I’ll willingly admit that you’re very unlikely to get it from me. I come at things from a certain point of view and, despite your claims to the contrary, you come at them from the opposite side - you’re as one eyed as I am.

[RichardM]

Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?

It was because the EU never controlled our borders.

We were never in Schengen so even EU citizens had to show passports to get in. As for allowing non-EU citizens into the country, that has always been handled by the UK. The only difference is that EU citizens don't have the right to work here, neither do we have the automatic right to work in Europe.

Taking back control of our borders was another Brexit lie that lots stupidly believed.

Even though EU citizens had to show their passports they were allowed in under the free movement rules.
Yes, you are right that non-EU migration was always controlled by the UK, after all Priti Patel and her predecessors were for ever telling us they were going to reduce immigration, implying it was in their control. They just never did and then started peddling lies about the benefits Brexit

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?

Even though EU citizens had to show their passports they were allowed in under the free movement rules.
Yes, you are right that non-EU migration was always controlled by the UK, after all Priti Patel and her predecessors were for ever telling us they were going to reduce immigration, implying it was in their control. They just never did and then started peddling lies about the benefits Brexit

Pre-Brexit the UK had a net immigration target of +100k per annum and the governments immediately post Brexit reaffirmed it. It was never realistic but very useful each year it was broken. Quietly discarded since but I guess it served its purpose.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?

I used to use these aggregate newsfeeds but there were just too many hideous pieces from writers and publications I had little respect for so I stopped. Apple News I switched off and if your using Microsoft Edge, I'm not kidding, it's like falling down the rabbit-hole.

I went for the jugular earlier and for that I apologise. In my defence I was left unsupervised without coffee.

No problem reply how you like

I use edge just for news feed, half hour in the morning really just to see whats happening in sport and whatever else comes up.

I'm not a socialist so i'll read from the guardian to the daily mail, I don't get upset if someone writes something that I disagree with, I understand that the country is divided and most people on here will have a paddy if you link something from a paper they don't like.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?

Pre-Brexit the UK had a net immigration target of +100k per annum and the governments immediately post Brexit reaffirmed it. It was never realistic but very useful each year it was broken. Quietly discarded since but I guess it served its purpose.

That was a project of Theresa May’s if I remember rightly.

[Des Parrot]

Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?

Spare a thought for Poland then, 4.4m refugees so far, still coming at the rate of 25 k per day. My local city, population 650k has 110k Ukrainian refugees, 15% growth in 4 months. My team have roughly 70 refugees between them, basically 1 each.

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?

That was a project of Theresa May’s if I remember rightly.

Started with Cameron in 2010 trying to shore up his UKIP flank. Still we know how that ended.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?

I've just come back in from work and some of these replies are hysterical, talk about an overreaction I think some of you were crying when you replied, get a grip and grow some.
I read it and the bit that jumped out to me is “Between 2011 and 2021, the population of England and Wales grew by a staggering 3.5 million, or about 6.6 per cent.”
As someone correctly pointed out it is due to immigration but also births outstripping deaths, but regardless it explains some of the posts we’ve seen the last few weeks, like I can’t get a doctor, dentist, ambulance, looked after in A&E, a hospital bed a policeman to call after a burglary, buy a house.
We have a problem the population of the UK and many other countries is growing at a significantly faster pace than all our important service providers.
I was expecting to see a sensible discussion about this and how it can be dealt with going forward and how immigration can bring positive benefits such as targeting doctors overseas etc.
Still I suppose it does show who just have one agenda and won’t look at any article and give a measured sensible response.

No doubt I'll come back next time to 30 replies screaming it's all Boris's fault, don't let me down

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?

I've just come back in from work and some of these replies are hysterical, talk about an overreaction I think some of you were crying when you replied, get a grip and grow some.
I read it and the bit that jumped out to me is “Between 2011 and 2021, the population of England and Wales grew by a staggering 3.5 million, or about 6.6 per cent.”
As someone correctly pointed out it is due to immigration but also births outstripping deaths, but regardless it explains some of the posts we’ve seen the last few weeks, like I can’t get a doctor, dentist, ambulance, looked after in A&E, a hospital bed a policeman to call after a burglary, buy a house.
We have a problem the population of the UK and many other countries is growing at a significantly faster pace than all our important service providers.
I was expecting to see a sensible discussion about this and how it can be dealt with going forward and how immigration can bring positive benefits such as targeting doctors overseas etc.
Still I suppose it does show who just have one agenda and won’t look at any article and give a measured sensible response.

......and breathe

[Baloo]

Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?

But Bob, your starting position is always one of a solid-far left position. Any attempt to row back from that towards the centre will inevitably be in one direction.

Start a topic in a balanced way and you will see me write the pro's and con's on it. Start off by ranting about the Tories and how everyone is racist when they aren't, and you'll see a push back.

You can read bmy first post on here, on page 1. Three posts in and Citizens Nephew is talking about Stormfront and how it's all racist. My response is about public services - it's far more balanced in tone and conclusion.

Presenting an alternative point of view to balance a discussion does not automatically mean you’ve presented a more balanced argument. You seem to believe that former must lead to the latter in your case but, like the rest of us, you may not actually be the best person to judge.

I enjoy reading your posts as they do provoke food for thought sometimes, but claiming victory on this basis all the time isn’t really necessary and distracts from the points you make tbh.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?

......and breathe