Tommy Doyle.

[Citizen's Nephew]

His link up play with Brennan Johnson showed as well that there was more to his game than pure instinct, he suffered in the team last season as we either played incredibly crap hoofball or pretty basic hold it up then get it to the wings, there was very little emphasis on getting the ball down in the middle of the pitch and actually playing, when he was paired with someone who does that in Johnson he shined

It's a good point but I think Johnson is something special and for me, the most exciting Welsh player probably since Bale and is going to have a much bigger career than Colwill. I'm not knocking the lad, I like him, but I'm rooting for him because he's 'one of our own' and not because I think he's got what it takes to kick on. At Cardiff, we don't have players like Johnson so it's all moot anyway. Even when Harry Wilson was here, it was mixed because he didn't have the players around him to shine. Put it this way, Johnson'll be in the shop window if Forest go down this season and I believe will have a great future with the Welsh team and PL (or overseas). My gut says that Colwill will drop off the radar. My heart says, I hope that isn't the case.

[J R Hartley]

It's a good point but I think Johnson is something special and for me, the most exciting Welsh player probably since Bale and is going to have a much bigger career than Colwill. I'm not knocking the lad, I like him, but I'm rooting for him because he's 'one of our own' and not because I think he's got what it takes to kick on. At Cardiff, we don't have players like Johnson so it's all moot anyway. Even when Harry Wilson was here, it was mixed because he didn't have the players around him to shine. Put it this way, Johnson'll be in the shop window if Forest go down this season and I believe will have a great future with the Welsh team and PL (or overseas). My gut says that Colwill will drop off the radar. My heart says, I hope that isn't the case.

Johnson will have a top career. No doubt about it.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

It's a good point but I think Johnson is something special and for me, the most exciting Welsh player probably since Bale and is going to have a much bigger career than Colwill. I'm not knocking the lad, I like him, but I'm rooting for him because he's 'one of our own' and not because I think he's got what it takes to kick on. At Cardiff, we don't have players like Johnson so it's all moot anyway. Even when Harry Wilson was here, it was mixed because he didn't have the players around him to shine. Put it this way, Johnson'll be in the shop window if Forest go down this season and I believe will have a great future with the Welsh team and PL (or overseas). My gut says that Colwill will drop off the radar. My heart says, I hope that isn't the case.

Colwill has loads of ability, he just walks past people. He needs a system for him to shine in though. And he doesn’t have that speed to get away from people. Needs to get past his man and then give it, that’s the challenge. Johnson is going to have a terrific career. He’s nailed on to be a PL footballer for years

[J R Hartley]

I don’t disagree that Colwill is at least as good a prospect as Doyle, but I don’t see them as similar players which makes the comparisons pretty meaningless.
Your view on Morison however feels to me that it significantly taints your objectivity, which of course is totally your prerogative, but for me devalues some of what you write.

My dislike of Morison, for reasons I’m not going to go into for the millionth time, it is no secret I don’t like him and maybe I am a bit over critical but I think I’ve backed up my point with balance and facts. A little bit of conjecture because of things I’m privy to but people can chose to believe they want. It’s all about opinions at the end of the day and it is my opinion that Morison doesn’t really fancy Colwill and doesn’t know where to fit him into his best XI.

It is prerogative of course, it’s 100% his team now. Only time will tell if I am right on this or if I will have to wait humble pie.

If he can fit a creative Colwill into the team and he comes up with the goods I will gladly do so.

[olderblue]

If Morison doesn't rate Colwill, then we are better shot of Morison.
Personally I don't rate him as manager and we can dump the pair of them, him and his inflated ego as far as I'm concerned

[RichardM]

Utter bollocks. By the time Whitts was Doyles age (20, nearly 21) he had wracked up 50 PL appearances for Villa.

Mcphail was a regular for Leeds in the Premier League at 19.

Doyle is nowhere near as good as either of them.

How many more Premier League appearances did they make in the next ten years?

[Rjk]

My dislike of Morison, for reasons I’m not going to go into for the millionth time, it is no secret I don’t like him and maybe I am a bit over critical but I think I’ve backed up my point with balance and facts. A little bit of conjecture because of things I’m privy to but people can chose to believe they want. It’s all about opinions at the end of the day and it is my opinion that Morison doesn’t really fancy Colwill and doesn’t know where to fit him into his best XI.

It is prerogative of course, it’s 100% his team now. Only time will tell if I am right on this or if I will have to wait humble pie.

If he can fit a creative Colwill into the team and he comes up with the goods I will gladly do so.

I'd agree that Colwill doesn't seem like a natural fit for the way that Morison is wanting to play, but I think he will still be able to make an impact this season.

I think Morison was pretty accurate when he said that Colwill was excellent with the ball in the transitional phase, and he wants to push him to raise his game without the ball. Maybe Colwill will improve that aspect of his game, or maybe the extra pace and dynamism we've added to the midfield will mean that we get the likes of Colwill on the ball in dangerous areas against a disorganised defence more often.
But we will see.

What's clear is that he always wants the young players to be striving to improve and raise their level all the time, hopefully that is successful.

Could go either way this season, and Morison hasn't achieved anything yet, so it's fair game to criticise him. I want Morison to be successful - while I've not agreed with everything he's done I think there have been a few indications that we are moving in a better direction as a club.

[J R Hartley]

I'd agree that Colwill doesn't seem like a natural fit for the way that Morison is wanting to play, but I think he will still be able to make an impact this season.

I think Morison was pretty accurate when he said that Colwill was excellent with the ball in the transitional phase, and he wants to push him to raise his game without the ball. Maybe Colwill will improve that aspect of his game, or maybe the extra pace and dynamism we've added to the midfield will mean that we get the likes of Colwill on the ball in dangerous areas against a disorganised defence more often.
But we will see.

What's clear is that he always wants the young players to be striving to improve and raise their level all the time, hopefully that is successful.

Could go either way this season, and Morison hasn't achieved anything yet, so it's fair game to criticise him. I want Morison to be successful - while I've not agreed with everything he's done I think there have been a few indications that we are moving in a better direction as a club.

Maybe Colwill can’t do that side of the game. Maybe it will come as he gets older. He doesn’t seem the aggressive type he’s laid back like Whitts it seems.

Do you make allowances because of the creativity and attacking positives he brings? Morison doesnt seem that type to me but we shall see.

Only time will tell.

[Rjk]

Maybe Colwill can’t do that side of the game. Maybe it will come as he gets older. He doesn’t seem the aggressive type he’s laid back like Whitts it seems.

Do you make allowances because of the creativity and attacking positives he brings? Morison doesnt seem that type to me but we shall see.

Only time will tell.

Yeah he's never going to be Ngolo Kante without the ball, but I'm all for pushing the younger ones to keep improving, that's often the difference between those who make an initial impact and then fade away and those who eventually get to the top.

[Citizen's Nephew]

Colwill has loads of ability, he just walks past people. He needs a system for him to shine in though. And he doesn’t have that speed to get away from people. Needs to get past his man and then give it, that’s the challenge. Johnson is going to have a terrific career. He’s nailed on to be a PL footballer for years

I agree, but over the last few seasons we've had four managers and variations of the same awful football. I honestly can't say I know where Colwill will fit this season, and tbh I don't think our club is the best place for him. He does have loads of ability but it's wasted with us, our setup, our 'style', our managers and the players and formation(s) around him. This season might be different. Might. I really like the lad, but I think he's been hindered by us more than helped imo. The best thing for him has been selected early in the Wales squad but it must be frustrating to come back to us and not really know what his role is.

I do kind of wonder what Cooper would have done with him in his Forest setup for example.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Just listening to the Second Tier podcast where the two presenters are selecting their key players for each team (they went for Colwill and Sawyers for City), but I was surprised to hear one of them pick Tommy Doyle for Sheffield United. They were also raving about him being one of the best summer signings in the whole division on the back of how good he was for City, my question is was he really that good for us?

I’d definitely say he improved our midfield and gave it some of the dynamism it was lacking and his attitude was spot on. He also scored a couple of nice goals which suggested he could get quite a few more in a side that created more chances. This is something which makes it hard to gauge how good a young player who has been in our team in the last few seasons might be - given the serious limitations of many of our players, you’d have had to be something really special to have stood out in our team.

Nevertheless, I felt a tiny bit disappointed with Doyle by the time he left us because there were games where he made little contribution, his form seemed to fade as his spell with us went on and, frankly, his much heralded dead ball deliveru was pretty poor throughout.

I appreciate a lot of what he went through in the last few months of the season was new to him and I shouldn’t lose sight of how young he is still - I’d have him back here like a shot and I’m sure he’ll play plenty of Premier League football in his career, but, as I said before, I had that slight feeling of disappointment about him at the of his time here.

Harry Wilson left and looked a much better player at Fulham, I think Doyle will look a lot better this season too.

[Rjk]

Harry Wilson left and looked a much better player at Fulham, I think Doyle will look a lot better this season too.

Harry Wilson was far better for us than Doyle was.
he scored 7 goals and 12 assists. and has several other successful seasons at championship level, and even 7 premier League goals to point to on his track record.

he was already a top top championship player before he went to Fulham, just for some reason strangely underappreciated here.

[the other bob wilson]

Doyle nominated to be the Championship’s best young player by one of the presenters of the Second Tier podcast.

[Colin'sReversibleHat]

Doyle nominated to be the Championship’s best young player by one of the presenters of the Second Tier podcast.

Can guarantee he won't win it if those saps have endorsed him!

[Carl Dale's Mole]

This is going to be an interesting thread to come back to in a few months.

[WJ99mobile]

Doyle nominated to be the Championship’s best young player by one of the presenters of the Second Tier podcast.

He might tear it up at Championship level next season

Look how much people like Bagan have come on in a year

I think he will do very good in his career but cannot see a situation where he'd break into a top 6 team ever.

[Rjk]

He might tear it up at Championship level next season

Look how much people like Bagan have come on in a year

I think he will do very good in his career but cannot see a situation where he'd break into a top 6 team ever.

yeah, that's a whole different kettle of fish

[North Cardiff Blue]

Harry Wilson was far better for us than Doyle was.
he scored 7 goals and 12 assists. and has several other successful seasons at championship level, and even 7 premier League goals to point to on his track record.

he was already a top top championship player before he went to Fulham, just for some reason strangely underappreciated here.

Yes agreed but the principle is the same, when he moved he went up a level, I think Doyle being a year older and a year more experienced, will look much better in a better more attacking team.

[North Cardiff Blue]

To add we were terrible last season, thank God for Doyle and Dramah!

[Carl Dale's Mole]

Is now the right time to bump this one?

[Hilts]

Is now the right time to bump this one?

No.

[Carl Dale's Mole]

Be miserable with me.

[UNDERHILL1927]

Is now the right time to bump this one?

Yes it most certainly is. Haha