Another Brexit Bonus

[JamesWales]

Well this is the name and methodology used, so I'm not sure what we can do about it

I agree - I think it's just a rather boosterist term for their study which made me wonder if they factored in other elements. Hey ho

[Swiss Peter]

Here we go!

"Freedom of movement" is something of a colloquialism. It didn't mean there were never checks anywhere. Some countries are outside of Schengen, so there was. You always needed your passport to fly abroad etc and it was always checked. Now it is stamped, but it needn't be. Thats a choice (some) EU countries have made I believe. They don't have to. Mines been stamped twice. It took no longer at all. A second at most.

Even if all the queues were caused by Brexit (they weren't) as opposed to anything else, they didn't occur on the second weekend of the first full summer holiday post covid and leaving the EU, which rather suggests that if people put their minds to it, then whatever problems are created can be solved within a week anyway.

It's hardly the most compelling reason to have remained in the EU is it.

No - there are certainly lots of other more compelling reasons to have remained in the EU, and delays at Dover are not near the top of my list of biggest concerns either.

But since we're on the subject, are you really trying to argue that 'movement' post-Brexit is as 'free' now as it was when UK was part of the EU but outside Schengen?. ....and this based upon your own '1 second' experience?. There's a good video from Simon Calder posted further up which suggests otherwise, and I imagine he probably knew we weren't in Schengen in pre-Brexit times.

“Freedom of movement” may be a colloquialism but it can also means real things to real people and real businesses when that movement is restricted and it causes things to go tits-up, which is what even JRM is now suggesting happened at Dover.

[Swiss Peter]

Well flying out of Bristol Saturday morning.

Interesting to see how it all compares to pre - Brexit.

Where you flying to?. I've been in and out of Germany a few times. Where as before I got waved through with a cursory glance at my passport, I now get questioned on where I'm going and for what reason (maybe cos I go in and out so much). Not that it has been a major issue for me yet. Have a good trip!

[Hilts]

Where you flying to?. I've been in and out of Germany a few times. Where as before I got waved through with a cursory glance at my passport, I now get questioned on where I'm going and for what reason (maybe cos I go in and out so much). Not that it has been a major issue for me yet. Have a good trip!

Cheers mate. Crete.

[JamesWales]

No - there are certainly lots of other more compelling reasons to have remained in the EU, and delays at Dover are not near the top of my list of biggest concerns either.

But since we're on the subject, are you really trying to argue that 'movement' post-Brexit is as 'free' now as it was when UK was part of the EU but outside Schengen?. ....and this based upon your own '1 second' experience?. There's a good video from Simon Calder posted further up which suggests otherwise, and I imagine he probably knew we weren't in Schengen in pre-Brexit times.

“Freedom of movement” may be a colloquialism but it can also means real things to real people and real businesses when that movement is restricted and it causes things to go tits-up, which is what even JRM is now suggesting happened at Dover.

No, I'm not. Movement is less free. There are more checks on some goods, passports are generally stamped and people have lost the automatic right to live within the EU. These are facts and I understand why for some people they were reasons to vote Remain six years ago and why they may still be bitter now.

But that doesn't mean that other issues cannot cause delays, or that problems didn't exist before, or that new problems can't be solved, or that new opportunites can't emerge outside the EU, or that all of the issues now are necessarily needed.

Problems come, problems go. This default position of many to kinda fold their arms and say, "well thats Brexit!" it's neither helpful nor in most cases truthful. Much better to try and find solutions.

It's also just one of many many ways of assessing the UK's position since 2016, and I would suggest there are more important ones. The optics for the EU's economies are generally worse than ours at the moment. (not Brexit related, I would add, although the EU's stance on Russia is questionable)

Incidentally, if there were queues like we saw two weeks ago every week, I absolutely would largely blame brexit - I asked Jon1959 if he was willing to bet on the chaos continuing, and he declined. I think it would have been fun (and I was a little worried!)

[Swiss Peter]

No, I'm not. Movement is less free. There are more checks on some goods, passports are generally stamped and people have lost the automatic right to live within the EU. These are facts and I understand why for some people they were reasons to vote Remain six years ago and why they may still be bitter now.

But that doesn't mean that other issues cannot cause delays, or that problems didn't exist before, or that new problems can't be solved, or that new opportunites can't emerge outside the EU, or that all of the issues now are necessarily needed.

Problems come, problems go. This default position of many to kinda fold their arms and say, "well thats Brexit!" it's neither helpful nor in most cases truthful. Much better to try and find solutions.

It's also just one of many many ways of assessing the UK's position since 2016, and I would suggest there are more important ones. The optics for the EU's economies are generally worse than ours at the moment. (not Brexit related, I would add, although the EU's stance on Russia is questionable)

Incidentally, if there were queues like we saw two weeks ago every week, I absolutely would largely blame brexit - I asked Jon1959 if he was willing to bet on the chaos continuing, and he declined. I think it would have been fun (and I was a little worried!)

Thing is - it is absolutely not in my interest (my pension fund!) or my kids' future interest for Brexit not to work. For that reason I will acknowledge and welcome good Brexit news if and when it comes along. In a similar fashion, I would expect those who supported Brexit to acknowledge where things are not going well, where corrective action may be needed, where some re-visiting of the agreement alongside EU partners would help (not the way it's being done with the NI protocol!)- and there seems to be an almost evangelistic reluctance to do that (not you, necessarily!).

[ToTaL ITK]

Hers is my take.
Blighty left the EU Jan 2020..bang! along comes Covid 19. I didn't travel anywhere outside of my EU country during that time.
Blighty leaving the EU meant that if i had left my country i would not have been allowed back in again as a British passport holder.
I decided to become a citizen of my EU country (took two weeks) and i can now travel to any schengen country without a passport.
And of course being dual nationality i won't have any bother getting into Blighty. Best of both worlds

[jon1959]

No, I'm not. Movement is less free. There are more checks on some goods, passports are generally stamped and people have lost the automatic right to live within the EU. These are facts and I understand why for some people they were reasons to vote Remain six years ago and why they may still be bitter now.

But that doesn't mean that other issues cannot cause delays, or that problems didn't exist before, or that new problems can't be solved, or that new opportunites can't emerge outside the EU, or that all of the issues now are necessarily needed.

Problems come, problems go. This default position of many to kinda fold their arms and say, "well thats Brexit!" it's neither helpful nor in most cases truthful. Much better to try and find solutions.

It's also just one of many many ways of assessing the UK's position since 2016, and I would suggest there are more important ones. The optics for the EU's economies are generally worse than ours at the moment. (not Brexit related, I would add, although the EU's stance on Russia is questionable)

Incidentally, if there were queues like we saw two weeks ago every week, I absolutely would largely blame brexit - I asked Jon1959 if he was willing to bet on the chaos continuing, and he declined. I think it would have been fun (and I was a little worried!)

Of course there are other reasons for delay than just post-Brexit passport and customs checks. I said that several times further up this thread - as have others - mainly spikes in passenger and freight vehicles and a temporary shortage of French border officials which may have been a factor for 2-3 hours on the first day. In combination with the Brexit delays (which by themselves may have created significant queues and congestion) they created days of chaos.

But you keep denying that Brexit is a factor - in the face of public statements from the Port of Dover Chief Executive, transport and travel experts and Jacob Rees-Mogg. I am surprised if, contrary to expert and insider predictions, the Dover problems have gone away. Most were predicting up to 2 years of continued intermittent blockages leading to significant delays.

Your 'bet' was nonsensical (unless all the same factors applied in subsequent days to the same extent, which was never going to happen) so I decided not to play. Sorry to disappoint.

'Problems come, problems go.... Much better to try and find solutions'. I'm sure there are thousands of people out there on both sides of the channel looking for solutions - increased capacity, enhanced technology, greater numbers of staff cramming into those 15 booths and process/procedural changes that shave seconds of the process. Unfortunately none of those thousands of people are here on the CCMB. In the absence of any relevant responsibility or expertise, we will have to content ourselves with banter and comment - some of it critical. Again, sorry to disappoint.

[Swiss Peter]

Hers is my take.
Blighty left the EU Jan 2020..bang! along comes Covid 19. I didn't travel anywhere outside of my EU country during that time.
Blighty leaving the EU meant that if i had left my country i would not have been allowed back in again as a British passport holder.
I decided to become a citizen of my EU country (took two weeks) and i can now travel to any schengen country without a passport.
And of course being dual nationality i won't have any bother getting into Blighty. Best of both worlds

I'm now the only one of the 5 people in my immediate family including my sister that has no entitlement to an EU passport, and I'm the one that has always banged on complaining about Brexit the most. Bloody annoying!.

[Hilts]

More issues to come?

https://www-kentonline-co-uk.cdn.amp...wait-271241%2F

[Eric Cartman]

Here we go!

"Freedom of movement" is something of a colloquialism. It didn't mean there were never checks anywhere. Some countries are outside of Schengen, so there was. You always needed your passport to fly abroad etc and it was always checked. Now it is stamped, but it needn't be. Thats a choice (some) EU countries have made I believe. They don't have to. Mines been stamped twice. It took no longer at all. A second at most.

Even if all the queues were caused by Brexit (they weren't) as opposed to anything else, they didn't occur on the second weekend of the first full summer holiday post covid and leaving the EU, which rather suggests that if people put their minds to it, then whatever problems are created can be solved within a week anyway.

It's hardly the most compelling reason to have remained in the EU is it.

Are you really saying, 'the queues weren't caused by brexit they were caused by it being busy'? It's been busy at Dover before James, pure cope.

[Eric Cartman]

No, I'm not. Movement is less free. There are more checks on some goods, passports are generally stamped and people have lost the automatic right to live within the EU. These are facts and I understand why for some people they were reasons to vote Remain six years ago and why they may still be bitter now.

But that doesn't mean that other issues cannot cause delays, or that problems didn't exist before, or that new problems can't be solved, or that new opportunites can't emerge outside the EU, or that all of the issues now are necessarily needed.

Problems come, problems go. This default position of many to kinda fold their arms and say, "well thats Brexit!" it's neither helpful nor in most cases truthful. Much better to try and find solutions.

It's also just one of many many ways of assessing the UK's position since 2016, and I would suggest there are more important ones. The optics for the EU's economies are generally worse than ours at the moment. (not Brexit related, I would add, although the EU's stance on Russia is questionable)

Incidentally, if there were queues like we saw two weeks ago every week, I absolutely would largely blame brexit - I asked Jon1959 if he was willing to bet on the chaos continuing, and he declined. I think it would have been fun (and I was a little worried!)

Waffle

[JamesWales]

Waffle

I shall enjoy one at the Wales game in Brussels in September, if I ever get there of course.

[Hilts]

But weve got blue passports mun.!!

https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampp...us-for-britain

[JamesWales]

But weve got blue passports mun.!!

https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampp...us-for-britain

I saw this earlier on the guardian, then one of my favourite middle class lefty friends on FB posted it at lunch and so I knew one of you lot would be all over it soon.

My goodness, an anti brexit article in the guardian using cherry picked statistics that even at a quick glance through contains numerous inaccuracies.

I'll expect to read a balanced a view on the koran by T.Robinson before I read a balanced assessment of Brexit from there. It's pointless stressing this to you guys by now, if you are determined to only read the bad news, much of which isn't accurately presented either.

[Swiss Peter]

I saw this earlier on the guardian, then one of my favourite middle class lefty friends on FB posted it at lunch and so I knew one of you lot would be all over it soon.

My goodness, an anti brexit article in the guardian using cherry picked statistics that even at a quick glance through contains numerous inaccuracies.

I'll expect to read a balanced a view on the koran by T.Robinson before I read a balanced assessment of Brexit from there. It's pointless stressing this to you guys by now, if you are determined to only read the bad news, much of which isn't accurately presented either.

Fair play, James. A weaker man would have given up trying to educate us all by now!

[JamesWales]

Fair play, James. A weaker man would have given up trying to educate us all by now!

You know you are being played, thats the frustrating thing!

I literally posted up data yesterday showing the Eurozone manufacturing sector is in recession (the UK's isnt) and no one cares.

Yet, an article in which, wait for it, the anecdotal comments from the esteemed Kenneth Mackenzie who has run a high-end men’s casualwear business called 6876, based in London since 1995 wets everyones knickers.

F**k me, it's like an article on crime in the UK that ignores crime data, but then interviews Mrs Goggins from Pontyspunky who had her pants stolen from her washing line last month.

Anything to tell the readers what they want to believe! Does my tits in!

[ToTaL ITK]

I shall enjoy one at the Wales game in Brussels in September, if I ever get there of course.

there is no fecking way you are getting into Brussels

[Hilts]

The lady from Cowbridge made me laugh.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/a...blame-24642621

[Hilts]

"We are Great Britain and we will be getting Greater."

😂😂😂😂😂

[JamesWales]

"We are Great Britain and we will be getting Greater."

����������

Probably more realistic than this:

"We are not the envy of the world anymore," he added, "We are the crackpot aunty in the corner that everyone laughs at."

The guys twitter. He sounds like a man-toddler.

[Swiss Peter]

Probably more realistic than this:

"We are not the envy of the world anymore," he added, "We are the crackpot aunty in the corner that everyone laughs at."

The guys twitter. He sounds like a man-toddler.

Yeah, I don't much like his twitter style.

On the other hand, someone who has built a business which imports 2 million bottles of wine a year and supplies 300 outlets and tells a real world story of how damaging Brexit has been - versus some bloke that sits on his keyboard on CCMB ranting and throwing out inconclusive stats.

I'll take my own view on who the man-toddler is here.

[JamesWales]

Yeah, I don't much like his twitter style.

On the other hand, someone who has built a business which imports 2 million bottles of wine a year and supplies 300 outlets and tells a real world story of how damaging Brexit has been - versus some bloke that sits on his keyboard on CCMB ranting and throwing out inconclusive stats.

I'll take my own view on who the man-toddler is here.

You will never struggle to find anecdotal evidence to back up an argument and no economy will always work for every person in every sector. There are equivalents of that guy in every country at every point in history.

That doesn't render official economic statistics irrelevent.

I'm sure you can see the difference.

[Swiss Peter]

You will never struggle to find anecdotal evidence to back up an argument and no economy will always work for every person in every sector. There are equivalents of that guy in every country at every point in history.

That doesn't render official economic statistics irrelevent.

I'm sure you can see the difference.

Statistics are not irrelevant. But they are inconclusive if presented simply as a snapshot in time to try and prove a point, without full wider context. I think you have agreed that before.

Ok, you'll never struggle to find anecdotal evidence. This being the case, please present the stories from those people for whom Brexit has made their lives much easier. I think that's what people on this thread have been asking for from the beginning. Then a balanced view can be formed.

[jon1959]

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...citys-24678731

Of Cardiff City's 14 signings to date, only one has been brought in from abroad.

The Bluebirds planned to exploit their European scouting network this summer, as revealed by WalesOnline earlier this year, and wanted to look at players in Germany, France and Holland specifically.

However, they have only tapped into the German market so far, bringing in Jamilu Collins, the Nigeria international from Paderborn SC who play in Bundesliga II. As we have seen from just one outing, it looks like the left-back will be quite the hit with the fans. You can read more about that here.

That transfer has seemingly worked out smoothly so far, so why, then, don't they tap into the foreign market to bring in more quality from abroad? Well, it's not quite as simple as that.

Due to Brexit, registration rules have changed. The FA, the Premier League and EFL implemented a new system in which players had to meet certain criteria to be eligible for a transfer from abroad.

Clubs are now not allowed to sign players freely from EU countries and must adhere to the Governing Body Endorsement (GBE) ruling which stipulates players must have the requisite 15 points to complete a transfer. To gain said points, players have to accrue a certain number of appearances, both senior and youth international appearances, the quality of the selling club and club appearances, based on domestic league and continental competition minutes.

Fortunately for Cardiff, Collins scraped through by a single point, owing to his exploits with Nigeria, but Steve Morison explained further just how difficult he found shopping in the European market this summer.

"The biggest problem with abroad is that they need a certain amount of points, they need 15 minimum," he explained. "He had his points because he’d played for Nigeria. He got his by a few other things and it all added up and I think he got in by one point.

"Some players you start looking and think, 'Oh, he's good', as a recruitment team. You look into it and you send all of the stuff over and then you find out he has only got 12 points so you can't do it.

"So it’s Brexit that’s caused it to be more difficult. Unless you’re signing from the top divisions, from the Bundesliga or Ligue 1 or Serie A, then it's a lot more difficult to get them over.

"He is the only one who kind of jumped off the page to us that we knew we could get. Even that took a while, that was going on for about four weeks. But I was really pleased with it and from the first day of pre-season we have been excited to see what he can do on the grass."