West Ham

[Canton Kev]

The data proves that considering we have a catchment area of about 1 million , with no other professional club to compete with , this club does not get crowds on a regular basis to justify us being mooted as a big club , even by championship standards

I know this hurts people , we would all love CCFC to be getting better support from the locals but it's always been the same

Even a successful Cardiff City doesn't seem to hold onto its support . People fight to get season tickets when we go up but after the inevitable relegation 15000 of them disappear . I almost feel that locally people are there to watch the big teams as much as they are to watch us .

Cardiff fans and some of our players believe their own hype .....big club , massive club etc

We are no bigger than Swansea , Plymouth , Bristol , Coventry etc

It's sad but it's true

If we won the Premier League 10 years running what crowds do you think we’d get?

[A Quiet Monkfish]

West Ham were getting 34k average crowds at the Boleyn Ground. I seriously doubt there were 25k every week desperately trying to get what spare tickets were available for home games. They haven't had a fan base above that and were averaging around 22k in the early days of the PL.
I think there's just such an enormous catchment area withing Greater London [9 million], and a culture of staying within the area for any form of recreation - whereas we may head off to the coast/countryside - that to have the opportunity to watch PL football 20 odd times a season, even though you weren't really a WHU fan, is an attractive proposition. It's definitely a 'London' thing.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Even a successful Cardiff City doesn't seem to hold onto its support . People fight to get season tickets when we go up but after the inevitable relegation 15000 of them disappear .

We lost 6.6k after our first relegation and 8.6k after our second. Both times that was around 25% of our fan base. Such drops in attendance are not unusual by any means. I'll happily repeat myself again and say that virtually the only clubs that have not suffered drops in attendance after relegation from the PL are those who have enjoyed a long history in the top division. There are sides who have enjoyed more top flight football than us over the last 50 years that have seen crowds drop by more than ours has.

[North Cardiff Blue]

We lost 6.6k after our first relegation and 8.6k after our second. Both times that was around 25% of our fan base. Such drops in attendance are not unusual by any means. I'll happily repeat myself again and say that virtually the only clubs that have not suffered drops in attendance after relegation from the PL are those who have enjoyed a long history in the top division. There are sides who have enjoyed more top flight football than us over the last 50 years that have seen crowds drop by more than ours has.

Norwich probably keep a lot of theirs, they get battered every week in the Premier, we know how that feels and normally batter everyone in the Championship, so they probably enjoy it more?

Glad to see them not finding it easy so far this season, long may it continue!

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Norwich probably keep a lot of theirs, they get battered every week in the Premier, we know how that feels and normally batter everyone in the Championship, so they probably enjoy it more?

Glad to see them not finding it easy so far this season, long may it continue!

Norwich's support was maintained even when they went down to League 1. Other sides like Leicester and Southampton saw their crowds drop.

From the mid 70s Norwich spent 20 out of 23 seasons in the top division. Their support didn't wobble in the 80s and 90s like most. I guess there isn't a lot else to do in that part of the world, that the football club is a huge part of the community.

[TWGL1]

Norwich's support was maintained even when they went down to League 1. Other sides like Leicester and Southampton saw their crowds drop.

From the mid 70s Norwich spent 20 out of 23 seasons in the top division. Their support didn't wobble in the 80s and 90s like most. I guess there isn't a lot else to do in that part of the world, that the football club is a huge part of the community.

Norwich 23rd in the attendance league , but they have been more successful than most

http://european-football-statistics....eague/norc.htm

City , with much less success 32nd

http://european-football-statistics....eague/carc.htm

West Ham are 10th in the all time attendance figures

http://european-football-statistics....league/whu.htm

They could easily manage 60,000 over a sustained period.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Norwich 23rd in the attendance league , but they have been more successful than most

http://european-football-statistics....eague/norc.htm

City , with much less success 32nd

http://european-football-statistics....eague/carc.htm

West Ham are 10th in the all time attendance figures

http://european-football-statistics....league/whu.htm

They could easily manage 60,000 over a sustained period.

Not sure if this is of interest, but here's a table I've created showing league teams ranked by overall average attendance and a comparison with their overall league ranking. To save time I've taken the list of total attendances and divided by number of home games played, so one or two teams might be out by a position or two as my data doesn't include cup games. Not that it matters, this is just a comparison. For overall league ranking, I've taken an average of each teams' league position at the end of the season (adjusted per division, so currently bottom of the Championship would be 44th). This is how average attendance rank and average league position rank compare.

I've just listed the top 50. On the left is the attendance rank. On the right is the average position rank and the difference between them, calculated attendance rank minus position rank. The more negative that number, the better a club's average crowd has been given their league performance; the more positive a number, that club's crowds haven't matched their league positions.

1 Manchester United 4 (-3)
2 Arsenal FC 2 (0)
3 Liverpool FC 1 (2)
4 Tottenham Hotspur FC 5 (-1)
5 Chelsea FC 7 (-2)
6 Newcastle United FC 9 (-3)
7 Everton FC 3 (4)
8 Manchester City FC 8 (0)
9 Aston Villa FC 6 (3)
10 West Ham United FC 12 (-2)
11 Sunderland AFC 10 (1)
12 Leeds United FC 15 (-3)
13 Sheffield Wednesday FC 18 (-5)
14 Wolverhampton Wanderers FC 14 (0)
15 Birmingham City FC 23 (-8)
16 West Bromwich Albion FC 11 (5)
17 Middlesbrough FC 17 (0)
18 Leicester City FC 19 (-1)
19 Sheffield United FC 20 (-1)
20 Southampton FC 25 (-5)
21 Nottingham Forest FC 24 (-3)
22 Derby County FC 16 (6)
23 Ipswich Town FC 27 (-4)
24 Norwich City FC 36 (-12)
25 Bolton Wanderers FC 21 (4)
26 Stoke City FC 22 (4)
27 Portsmouth FC 31 (-4)
28 Coventry City FC 34 (-6)
29 Crystal Palace FC 38 (-9)
30 Blackburn Rovers FC 13 (17)
31 Fulham FC 30 (1)
32 Cardiff City FC 39 (-7)
33 Charlton Athletic FC 33 (0)
34 Burnley FC 26 (8)
35 Huddersfield Town AFC 32 (3)
36 Queens Park Rangers FC 37 (-1)
37 Preston North End FC 28 (9)
38 Bristol City FC 41 (-3)
39 Brighton & Hove Albion FC 52 (-13)
40 Millwall FC 47 (-7)
41 Hull City AFC 44 (-3)
42 Plymouth Argyle FC 53 (-11)
43 Watford FC 48 (-5)
44 Blackpool FC 35 (9)
45 Swansea City AFC 49 (-4)
46 Luton Town FC 40 (6)
47 Reading FC 54 (-7)
48 Bradford City AFC 56 (-8)
49 Bradford Park Avenue AFC 55 (-6)
50 Notts County FC 42 (8)

[Taunton Blue Genie]

I think that Liverpool and United have fans to replace any fan that wants to give up their season ticket

They are enormous worldwide clubs

Below them in British football are spurs , the arse , man City, Newcastle

West Ham are a well supported club but if they dropped down the league or just tread water like I think they probably will do I can't see them getting 60000 plus gates

That puts them above Newcastle in terms of support . I don't think they are that big personally .

Isn't it the case that with some of the best supported teams relatives hang onto season tickets after the ticket holders in their families have shed their mortal coil?

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Isn't it the case that with some of the best supported teams relatives hang onto season tickets after the ticket holders in their families have shed their mortal coil?

And I meant not only for the remainder of the season of the individual's demise but for subsequent seasons as waiting lists are years-long, as it were.

[Mario Miethig]

Hate to say it, but Sludge got a point when it comes to Cardiff and our support. Always been fickle and I don’t think in a million years we’d average 60K, even with sustained success.
If you look at our league history compared to other teams, you probably wouldn’t see another club with such peaks and troughs with its support. Up and down like a yo yo.
Our highest average is approximately 38,000 back in the 50’s. Football was in a post war boom then and even then we didn’t average over 40k in the old Division 1.

[Canton Kev]

Hate to say it, but Sludge got a point when it comes to Cardiff and our support. Always been fickle and I don’t think in a million years we’d average 60K, even with sustained success.
If you look at our league history compared to other teams, you probably wouldn’t see another club with such peaks and troughs with its support. Up and down like a yo yo.
Our highest average is approximately 38,000 back in the 50’s. Football was in a post war boom then and even then we didn’t average over 40k in the old Division 1.

Counter point, top flight crowds on average have gotten much bigger since then. In the 50's the average Division 1 crowd was ~30k, over the past decade the Premier League average is ~38k. If our crowds rose by roughly the same amount then we'd be looking at 45k average crowds for a midtable PL team.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Counter point, top flight crowds on average have gotten much bigger since then. In the 50's the average Division 1 crowd was ~30k, over the past decade the Premier League average is ~38k. If our crowds rose by roughly the same amount then we'd be looking at 45k average crowds for a midtable PL team.

Honestly mate give it up whilst you still can

45 k average support for ccfc ?

We don't have 45 k fans

A hardcore of around 16 k

[TWGL1]

Honestly mate give it up whilst you still can

45 k average support for ccfc ?

We don't have 45 k fans

A hardcore of around 16 k

I reckon with ten years of reasonable Premiership performance, we would achieve 45,000 for the big games which would include 4,500 away fans.

Football is the number one sport in Wales isn’t it ?

[Packerman]

West Ham were getting 34k average crowds at the Boleyn Ground. I seriously doubt there were 25k every week desperately trying to get what spare tickets were available for home games. They haven't had a fan base above that and were averaging around 22k in the early days of the PL.
I think there's just such an enormous catchment area withing Greater London [9 million], and a culture of staying within the area for any form of recreation - whereas we may head off to the coast/countryside - that to have the opportunity to watch PL football 20 odd times a season, even though you weren't really a WHU fan, is an attractive proposition. It's definitely a 'London' thing.

Boleyn ground capacity was 35,000 so basically sold out every week Same as Spurs at the old WHL don't see people saying they wont maintain their crowds over a season and considering most of their support (West Ham) is from Essex all they way to Southend/Colchester its definitely not a London thing

[Packerman]

You are another deluded Cardiff City fan , the type the jacks take the piss out of on a regular basis

When we were in the lower leagues some of our fans , the likes of you clearly , would say oh wait till we get back into the championship , watch our crowds then ! , huge , sell outs , potential , sleeping giant and all that bollocks ��

Our first crowd back v Bradford? , including 500 of them ......16421

17 years away from any sort of success .....we get some .......and that's the sort of crowd we get

Basically what Cardiff fans like you are saying is yes we can get big crowds .......but only if we are doing well

That's a pretty poor defence ��

As for West Ham I don't think they will be getting 60000 gates for long

You want to bet on West hams crowds? be a bit careful though sludge as they have 54,000 season ticket holders

[Swiss Peter]

You want to bet on West hams crowds? be a bit careful though sludge as they have 54,000 season ticket holders

I'm sure I remember a very established poster on here, and one that features heavily in this thread, telling us that Arsenal wouldn't fill their ground when they moved to the Emirates.

[Canton Kev]

Honestly mate give it up whilst you still can

45 k average support for ccfc ?

We don't have 45 k fans

A hardcore of around 16 k

Are you being purposely obtuse?

"midtable PL team" is what I said. I'm not saying 45k people would turn up to watch us play Luton, Coventry or West Brom but if we were an established Premier League team finishing midtable then I don't see why 45k is an unreasonable average crowd considering we were selling out a 33k stadium in a relegation season.

When we averaged 38k in the top flight the division average was ~31k. The division average is now ~38k. Crowds on a whole have increased since then, why do you think Cardiff City would be an exception?

You keep saying we only get big crowds for big games. Cup finals, promotions, etc and that our support is only ~16k. The Premier League is a big draw, one that's proven to draw our fairweather fans out in their thousands. If we spent 5 years in the Premier League do you think our 33k crowds would drop back to the ~20k average we've been having in the Championship for the past several years.

[JamesWales]

Counter point, top flight crowds on average have gotten much bigger since then. In the 50's the average Division 1 crowd was ~30k, over the past decade the Premier League average is ~38k. If our crowds rose by roughly the same amount then we'd be looking at 45k average crowds for a midtable PL team.

I think West Ham have a much larger catchment area and historic support base, but I think you could be right. If City had a ground that held 45,000-50,000, I think 45,000 average is viable for a mid table ranked premier league team.

We would achieve those gates with more difficulty than others; we would have to offer student prices, large away allocations and have good value tickets, but I don't think it's entirely unrealistic.

I do think City's support is pretty fickle mind.

[Lither_1927]

Glory seekers

I know plenty of so called Cardiff fans who pleaded for fa cup final tickets and have barely watched us since

The fact we were only getting gates of 13000 or so in the championship surely shows you that we simply don't have the support the bigger clubs have ?

We returned 1500 tickets to Middlesborough when we beat them to get to Wembley

Again that tells a story to anyone except the most one eyed of Cardiff fans

We got good gates in the Premier league but they don't stick around do they ?

Against Norwich we had a crowd of just under 20000 with 1500 or so Norwich

18500 home fans

Swansea City had around 16000 home fans on Saturday

Now people may not like this but part of our problem is embarrassing ourselves thinking we are a bigger club than we actually are . We are , given that Swansea is a much smaller populated area , a club of similar size . I can't stand the jacks but you don't hear them talking about getting big crowds .

When hammam was here he and his followers were talking about huge crowds of 60000 !

I can't believe people are still doing it , it really is embarrassing 😳

I wish you'd stop attention seeking for replies. You always have to take it that step further

[TWGL1]

On a separate note, If Bristol Rovers had a brand new 25,000 seater stadium , do you think they would fill it ?
Bristol City fans I know think Rovers are a small club, however , I think they are bigger than Bristol City.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I'm sure I remember a very established poster on here, and one that features heavily in this thread, telling us that Arsenal wouldn't fill their ground when they moved to the Emirates.

They don't

Along with man City there are plenty of empty seats on view

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Are you being purposely obtuse?

"midtable PL team" is what I said. I'm not saying 45k people would turn up to watch us play Luton, Coventry or West Brom but if we were an established Premier League team finishing midtable then I don't see why 45k is an unreasonable average crowd considering we were selling out a 33k stadium in a relegation season.

When we averaged 38k in the top flight the division average was ~31k. The division average is now ~38k. Crowds on a whole have increased since then, why do you think Cardiff City would be an exception?

You keep saying we only get big crowds for big games. Cup finals, promotions, etc and that our support is only ~16k. The Premier League is a big draw, one that's proven to draw our fairweather fans out in their thousands. If we spent 5 years in the Premier League do you think our 33k crowds would drop back to the ~20k average we've been having in the Championship for the past several years.

You are fishing for luckies

If , maybe etc

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

On a separate note, If Bristol Rovers had a brand new 25,000 seater stadium , do you think they would fill it ?
Bristol City fans I know think Rovers are a small club, however , I think they are bigger than Bristol City.

Rovers have a very good away following but I think they lack that extra few thousand to trouble Bristol City

[A Quiet Monkfish]

The data proves that considering we have a catchment area of about 1 million , with no other professional club to compete with , this club does not get crowds on a regular basis to justify us being mooted as a big club , even by championship standards

I know this hurts people , we would all love CCFC to be getting better support from the locals but it's always been the same

Even a successful Cardiff City doesn't seem to hold onto its support . People fight to get season tickets when we go up but after the inevitable relegation 15000 of them disappear . I almost feel that locally people are there to watch the big teams as much as they are to watch us .

Cardiff fans and some of our players believe their own hype .....big club , massive club etc

We are no bigger than Swansea , Plymouth , Bristol , Coventry etc

It's sad but it's true

2 top flight appearances in the last 60 years haven't helped though.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

2 top flight appearances in the last 60 years haven't helped though.

Which doesn't happen to big clubs ?

17 years we spent in the lower leagues

Sheffield Wed , Sunderland , Leeds ......they tend to drag themselves back . And it's because they are big clubs ?