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I think this is the strongest argument tbh Mr P. I've often thought exactly that. So, ironically, there is a H&S element to it and I think that's worthy of discussion in its own right.
Maybe my own vulnerability is contributing to my caution.
We went to Birmingham away last season and had a great time. Met some lovely Brum fans and shared a cab to the ground. Apart from the overwhelming police presence and some issues getting out it was a really good day.
I don’t know if you are being deliberately obtuse but Its down to the way that the stadium is policed and stewarded and the fact that rival fans are generally kept well apart. Its not rocket science really is it. The incidence of bad behaviour at our home games reduced considerably when we moved to the new stadium.
Or society has moved on from those days? Cardiff City included. What about all the teams that haven’t moved stadiums in the last ~30 years?
Why don’t we have hooligan issues when we travel to these old stadiums without the modern stadium safety features?
Our crowds are 5 to 6 times bigger than back in the hooligan days and the football has become a family day out for many. What percentage of the crowds were women and children back in the 80’s compared to now?
The fact that the words ‘good old days’ in my previous post were in inverted commas should have given you a clue to the fact that I didn't enjoy them either. You seem to be pining after them though to me. I attended games at Ninian Park in the 70’s and 80’s where I was literally afraid for my life (Leeds fans infiltrating the main grandstand in disguise right behind me to attack City fans in the enclosure, Millwall fans taking over the ground after a game, wrecking it and trying to get into the dressing rooms, Swansea fans in the grandstand ripping out seats and throwing them into the Cardiff fans in the grange end and enclosure etc etc etc). Anyone wanting to go back to those sorts of thing happening (which putting fans right next to each other would encourage) is frankly mad.
So tell me when you have seen rival fans fighting each other inside Ninian Park? It was lively sometimes I know in the Sam hammam era with away fans surrounded so to speak but it rarely got out of control (Leeds fa cup for ie but no fighting) It’s a bit of a myth really, plenty of trouble away caused by our fans but not here, not for a long time. I get the club might want to reduce the likelihood of it happening but apart from the odd idiot ( which will always be in society) I don’t think there would be any trouble at the ground.
I think that you are missing the point as well. Having the family stand next to the away fans area actually helps control the whole system. There is no intimidatory behaviour being aimed at away fans and no missiles being thrown either. No one but the sickest away fan would therefore start reciprocation in the opposite direction and it rarely, if ever, appears to happen. This considerably reduces the intimidatory atmosphere within the stadium and reduces the risk of any violence or other problems occurring.
Millwall? In 2000 was it? There was no one in the ground, I know because me and a few others were the last to leave on the Bob bank that day. The idiots got their arses handed back to them on a plate under the grandstand I believe, that’s the only time I’ve heard of actual fighting in the ground this century……
Your comments in this post beggar belief. Did you ever go to a game at Ninian Park ? I refer you to my reply to SP above which contains three occasions when I was in fear of my safety and there were many other occasions both inside and outside the ground, all caused by fans being allowed in close proximity to each other.
Do you even go to games? You’re talking through your arse, rival fans generally kept apart???? Rival fans are actively encouraged to park at Gôl or Canton Rugby Club, there were plenty of Brum fans walking alongside City fans up Leckwith Rd, even having the audacity to take a short cut through Lidl’s car park. Fans are certainly not kept apart and everything seems to go smoothly. You seem obsessed by this ‘good old days’ thing. Try nipping down to a match and see for yourself, this ‘trouble’ which you seem to have a fixation with is a figment of your imagination.
Wrong - i and a number of other City fans were stuck in the ground at the back of the bob bank, with the Millwall fans rampaging around and trying to get at us. Both exits had been closed as they were blocked by Millwall fans fighting outside with City fans and there was nowhere to go. We were ‘protected’ by a handful of stewards. Luckily the police managed to regain control before they got across the pitch into the terracing. You are trying to defend the indefensible. As I said before, the new stadium has largely solved all these problems which is why I am totally against the relaxing of crowd segregation.
I have been to nearly every home game and a number of away games, every season for the last 58 years, so it is you that is ‘talking out of your arse’. There is no trouble at our home games since we moved to the new stadium (I never said there was) but you appear unable to work out why, even though the answer is right under your nose, and continue to advocate putting opposing fans as close as possible together and bugger the consequences.
Well the easy answer is that we do see some trouble at City away games, such as when fans wrecked the toilet's at Bristol City last year. Whilst I accept that could have happened wherever the opposing fans were located, these incidents always seem to occur at the higher profile games where the rivalry and intimidation is obviously much more intense. In our case that would be the games against Bristol City, Swansea, Leeds, Millwall, Birmingham, West Brom etc and having rival fans located close to each other especially on those occasions would only add to the problem. Some clubs are known for having a more family friendly atmosphere and don't have a big reputation for past hooliganism, so there would be less likelihood of problems arising if fans were close at those games but unfortunately you have to cater for the worst case scenario in these matters. Older people, disabled people, women and children would be much less likely to attend games if there was foul language, intimidation and the possibility of violence. The other question is - how many clubs actually allow it now ? My recollection is that there are few in the Championship. The problem at Reading was that originally the home fans were turfed out of their normal section to make room for the away fans and there were many complaints and some people stopped going, so in order to appease fans and get attendances up, Reading moved the home section back next to the away area. Reading are not a club with a particular hooligan problem that I know of, so that would explain why there would be less likely to be problems with the arrangement (plus there would be the threat of the club changing it back) but that doesn't make it the right thing to do generally.
And you didn't think the fact that both exits were blocked, home fans were stuck in the ground with no police presence near and that the Millwall fans were on the pitch in front of the grandstand, breaking through into the tunnel area and damaging the stand, with nothing to stop them getting on the bob bank was a concern ? You obviously must have a much higher threshold for acceptable levels of violence and associated risks to your health than most normal people then. It was just another normal day at the office for you perhaps.
That's one example from ~25 away games every season. If our support was so bad surely there would be loads of instances of similar events. Considering you said "these incidents always seem to occur at the higher profile games" it certainly seems a rare occurrence to me.
Bristol also have their vocal support at the opposite end of the stadium so the catalyst for that trouble can't be blamed on having opposing fans next to each other.
What about games where Cardiff and the vocal home fans have been next to each other? Huddersfield, Derby, Forest, Reading, Middlesbrough, Birmingham, Norwich, Luton and probably more that I'm forgetting, I believe all have that set up.
I’ve read your opinions of some of our players, that’s another reason I doubt your attendance. You also seem to think that home and away fans at our ground are kept apart due to the layout, home and away fans mix freely around the perimeter of our ground regularly. If you do go you must wear blinkers.
No, like I said that game is the only time this century I’ve seen actual fighting at a game, millwall fans were on the pitch by the grandstand but never once came over the Bob bank like you initially suggested so you were talking out if your arse again. They tried to go under the grandstand but had a very rude awakening shall we say so didn’t know where to go….back on to the grange end looking like idiots from what I can recall. You obv like to blow things out of proportion and have had a somewhat sheltered life. I’ve seen various levels of crazy stuff in countries I’ve been to around the world so maybe the odd scuffle or chavs acting up like I see on nights out in town doesn’t really register with me. Far worse trouble in cardiff city centre every weekend than anywhere near the ccs
No, like I said that game is the only time this century I’ve seen actual fighting at a game, millwall fans were on the pitch by the grandstand but never once came over the Bob bank like you initially suggested so you were talking out if your arse again. They tried to go under the grandstand but had a very rude awakening shall we say so didn’t know where to go….back on to the grange end looking like idiots from what I can recall. You obv like to blow things out of proportion and have had a somewhat sheltered life. I’ve seen various levels of crazy stuff in countries I’ve been to around the world so maybe the odd scuffle or chavs acting up like I see on nights out in town doesn’t really register with me. Far worse trouble in cardiff city centre every weekend than anywhere near the ccs