Reply With QuoteIt sounds like you are trying your hardest to find a way to blame the club for the kids death.Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
| + Visit Cardiff FC for Latest News, Transfer Gossip, Fixtures and Match Results |
You are right regarding such a policy being required in such circumstances but I don't think it's a case of being wise after the event. Even low-ranking civil servants are encouraged to take cheaper flights are neither expected nor permitted to use non-approved airlines. In the case of footballers, their value can be astronomical as we know - and it makes sense for clubs to protect such assets above and beyond simply caring for their employees on a human level.
It sounds like you are trying your hardest to find a way to blame the club for the kids death.
Don't really agree with you here Bob, I think it's more reasonable to assume that the club presumed that whoever was organizing the alternative would organize a safe and legal journey. It's not like putting him in a car which hasn't passed its MOT or even with a driver that's only recently passed their test
I think any non-pilot would assume that no pilot would get into a plane that they didn't feel was airworthy, I certainly did until I heard that recording just now. And it would never have crossed my mind before this incident that an inexperienced pilot would wing it (excuse the wording) in conditions he wasn't qualified to fly in at night over the sea.
Let's say the incident didn't happen at sea and when the plane landed Sala got in a taxi arranged by an agent's representative. Would the club have any responsibility if the taxi was unroadworthy and the driver had no licence and crashed with tragic consequences? Of course not. I understand why people want to blame the club for associating with a less than responsible agent and the employment of his family members does sound odd. But I cannot see that the club has the main responsibility for what was a tragic accident especially as the decision to take the flight (and not the scheduled flight offered by the club) was a matter between McKay, Henderson and Sala himself. I presume the club was told to withhold payment by their insurance company assuming that is that insurance was in place.
I certainly wouldn't fly an aircraft if I suspected there was a technical issue. The pilots ratings had nothing to do with the crash, it was carbon monoxide poisoning. Ibbotson had a night rating but it wasn't current. Saying that, you wouldn't fly a single engine aircraft across water, you wouldn't fly a single engine aircraft across water at night, and you wouldn't fly a single engine aircraft across water, at night, in bad weather. And you most certainly wouldn't fly at night, in bad weather, in a single engine aircraft if you thought the aircraft was tech.
We don't need an unnecessary analogy with taxis. The risks are not comparable.
Clubs should require their players only using approved airlines and flight companies.
No, it sounds like I think it’s reasonable to assume that someone at the club knew what the alternative to the flight that they offered might entail. I’m not saying that they knew it would involve a potential death trap, but that it would point to a particular type of plane being used and, if it were me, I wouldn’t have been too happy with a newly recruited club record signing travelling in that way - better to have Sala stay overnight in Nantes and catch a commercial plane the following day.
- better to have Sala stay overnight in Nantes and catch a commercial plane the following day.
Surely that's what the club had in mind when it offered a commercial flight. But as soon as Sala expressed his preferences and Ibbotson and Co took over the matter was taken out of the club's hands. I agree the plane was unsuitable but I don't think it had any say in the matter.
You’d have thought HIS agent would have sorted that out a bit better for him, maybe Sala should have declined to get in the plane especially with a dodgy weather forecast in the channel. He didn’t, McKay didn’t give a dam, all he wanted was the cheque as he stated at the time. Of course, it’s all ccfc fault though
My understanding is that Sala didn’t catch the commercial flight because he wanted to meet up with friends in Nantes - of course, I’m saying this with the benefit of hindsight, but he could have done that and still come back on a commercial flight, I’m trying to recall our programme of fixtures then and I don’t believe we were due to play until the following weekend.
I didn't assign fault. I merely suggested good practice that is already in situ with some employers.You’d have thought HIS agent would have sorted that out a bit better for him, maybe Sala should have declined to get in the plane especially with a dodgy weather forecast in the channel. He didn’t, McKay didn’t give a dam, all he wanted was the cheque as he stated at the time. Of course, it’s all ccfc fault though
My recollection of the story that emerged after the events is that Sala didn't take the commercial flight because he wanted to return to Cardiff in time for the squad's first training session after the Newcastle game that was played on 19th January. The following weekend was the fourth round of the FA Cup and we were knocked out in the third round. Our next match was against Arsenal on 29th January.
McKay wasn’t working for Cardiff or for Sala - he was working for Nantes (via his son Mark).
We shouldn`t have bought Sala because
1. we shouldn`t have been involved in a breach of FIFA rules in dealing in any way with Willie McKay
2. the transfer fee was way too high. Mehmet Dalman himself said that both he and Ken Choo were against signing him because the transfer fee was considered by them to be far too high
Despite the above, the deal still happened. What has never been properly explained by the directors is why.
We involved with his Son the agent, Football is a murky World you deal with agents or don't get the players.
So what is the problem then? You accept the club wouldn't assume it was faulty, and presumably you agree that the club would assume it would be flown by an experienced pilot with a license. So what exactly are you accusing the club of then? Letting him get in a little plane? Who knows what the club knew anyway, do you?
Why is it that after all the investigations and enquiries there is still evidence that was previously unknown?
To answer the few that asked about what the club did wrong, for me two things:-
1. We should have insisted he take a commercial flight/provided a private plane from a respectable source.
2. Dragging it through the courts as to who should pay the money is tasteless. It’s not my money, I understand that but it leaves a bad taste in the mouth for me.
That we ever allowed Sala to fly on a non commercial flight or a private flight organised by the club is beyond me and and a failing of the club.
I suspect that somebody at the club did informally endorse the arrangements assuming them to be creditable.
I doubt the club gave any endorsement, they'd be all day signing papers, yes that Taxi is ok, yes you can use that petrol mower, yes that paddle board is OK.
They are grown men, it looks like there was no rule don't fly unless it's a commercial flight, which will now have ben changed, hopefully along with a big list of activities which are banned as could result in death or injury.
My understanding is that Sala was offered a commercial flight but it was due to return earlier than he wanted.
The club obviously wanted him here that day, ready for training the next morning.
Sala wasn't pleased with the arrangement as he wanted to spend more time in Nantes to say his goodbyes properly.
At some point one of McKay's sons has stepped in to offer him a later flight on "McKay's Dodgy Airlines Inc", which clearly appealed more to the lad in terms of timings. If only the club had been willing to allow him to skip training that once and booked him a flight for the next day...
Jesus.
We also most certainly involved McKay senior as well. He accompanied Colin on flights to France and was also seen at CCS. They had known each other for many years, and had previously been involved as manager and agent in the deal (questioned at the time ) taking Joey Barton from Newcastle to QPR.
No problem with dealing with licenced intermediaries (as his son is) but McKay senior wasn`t, Colin knew it and so did the club directors. They therefore should have pulled out of the deal as soon as Willie got involved, especially as both the Chair and CEO said that they didn`t want to do the deal as the fee being asked for was far too high.
The club didn't have any idea how he was getting home, just that he had made his arrangements, to blame the club for Sala making a reckless decision is ludicrous, he shouldn't have got into that death trap, and Ibbotson shouldn't have even considered making the flight, he was aware the plane was dodgy and told his mate just that. Ibbotson and Henderson were irresponsible and ultimately, it’s their fault.
Has anyone listened to all of this, the plane wasn't fit to drive from the hanger to the runway, how an unlicensed pilot with no night-time experience would attempt to fly that rust bucket over the channel at night, in pitch black freezing conditions with a £20,000 footballer in the back is beyond belief!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0d1f1pj
Posting Permissions
