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He made an interesting point on a panel show recently where he said that the Institute of Economic Affairs (a right wing, libertarian, free market think tank) have been chipping away at getting its people into positions of power. Suddenly they're all there - Truss, Kwarteng etc. It disintegrates within a month. It is the death of far right politics in the country from within a right wing party. Osman described it as the biggest political failure in the history of the UK.
He's right. The UK doesn't want a far right government. Tories are now trying desperately to put themselves back into the middle ground.
It wants a right of centre government thoughOriginally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
This country is centre right leaning and always has been unfortunately
Maybe things will change at the next election but I wouldn't bet against this country electing a Conservative government again
The electorate are fecking thick as feck and have short memories
Get things correct.
England is centre right leaning and Wales has to put up with that.
Not always centre right - 1945 was a rejection of the centre right, and 1997 was a massive win for a social democratic party that may have ditched Clause 4 but hadn't yet sold its soul and its principles to Murdoch and Bush.
Politics, social cohesion and identity are all more volatile now than at any other time I can remember - with large numbers of voters capable of switching quickly from right to left and from traditional to emerging parties or causes. A large part of the disillusioned and 'abandoned' vote that went to UKIP, the Tories in 2019 and Brexit was also attracted to Corbyn's Labour in 2017, supports tax rises to fund the NHS and backs the Enough Is Enough trade union actions.
Exactly, while I’d agree that the UK (England especially) is a conservative (small c) nation at heart, there are “moments” when the nation’s instinct is to move away from that. For example, the country had had enough of too much union power in the late seventies and went further right than small c conservatism.As you say, 1945 was the opposite, and, for me, the country has been going further right under particularly inept Governments over the last dozen years - the time seems right for a recalibration, it feels right for one of those moments.
Britain wants a government that is balanced and works. Same as every other country. In most cases that means a centre-left or centre-right government. Most people don't care for the ideology because ideologies don't solve problems. Most governments will actually react in the same way to most problems.
It is preposterous to label the IEA as far-right or Kwarteng or Truss as such. Their budget was ultra-liberal if anything.
I don't know what a 'far right' fiscal policy would be, because the term normally applies to social policies not fiscal ones. Their budget was a mistake but it wasn't a 'far right' one.
Far right fiscal policy deploys tax and spending to increase inequality in an attempt to encourage the wealthy to use their money to stimulate growth.
Far left fiscal policy deploys tax and spending to decrease inequality and redistribute wealth in an attempt to improve infrastructure and social conditions so as to stimulate growth.
That isn't what far-right parties do though. Germany nazis, Italian fascists, Le Pen, whoever..they don't advocate free market economics.
Economic left-right scales don't operate on the same scale as social left-right scales. In that case, the EU as a totally liberal, deregulated free market across national borders would constitute the far-right, but that isn't accurate.
Aside from anything else, the loss of the 45% tax rate (which was their biggest error probably) would have returned the wealthiest rate of tax to Blairs time - Blair didn't employ far-right economic policies though.
Truss and Kwartang wanted a low tax, deregulated, small state - where individual choice (for those that can afford it) trumps collective provision. That is a right wing political/fiscal/social agenda combined. Whether it is 'far right' i don't know, or care.
And the EU is not a totally deregulated, liberal free market. That was a fair description of the EEC at the time of the Heath referendum, but it had evolved under pressure from trades unions and campaigners across Europe. The employment and environmental regulation in the EU was a reason that most members of the TUC and most of 'the left' (excluding the SWP and Dennis Skinner - who were still running the arguments of the 1970s) supported remain. It was also one of the main reasons the ERG wanted out.
The employment and environmental laws aren't fiscal policy though. I agree, in terms of most social, environmental etc policies the EU isn't right-wing, although it has been centre-right led for some years now.
Fiscally though, it's like Thatcherisms wet dream. It is total deregulation across national markets. Individual governments ability to intervene is heavily diminished and competition and free market principles are built into it's DNA.
That doesn't mean it is far-right at all because as I say, such phrases don't really apply in economic terms, but it is certainly a very liberal interpretation of how markets should work.
2 occasions in god knows how long
Twice since the end of world war two
That really doesn't suggest to me that we are not a right of centre country
I wish we wernt believe me
I was just giving a couple of examples, I could have said Wilson’s first Government and 1997 with Blair.
There no such concept that represents 'what Britain wants'. Voters cast their votes individually, whether the recipient of their vote in recent years was Boris Johnson's conservative party, Nigel Frage's UKIP party or Jeremy Corbin's Labour Party.
Well, of course there is no clear, universal definition of what the country wants. But it would be reasonable to assume that general election results give us a fair indication, no?
If half population were to vote left wing and the other half were to vote right wing it doesn't mean that the electorate 'wants' a finely balanced centre government.
Doesn't it? It probably means the median point of opinion is fairly centrist.
No it doesn't James. You're thinking like an accountant. It literally means the polar opposite (no pun intended).
Has a party ever won with more than 50% of the electorate voting for it? I'd guess the answer is "no" so I'm going for UK elections as NOT being representative.
Tyranny of the largest minority etc...
A moot point, since governments answer to the global corporations.
Do you see the obvious problem with this argument?
You tell me then - Insofar as the UK has any collective opinion, what is it?
I'd say it's reasonable to say that the UK typically elects centre-left or centre-right governments and the battle is won in the centre.
And that is what happens in most advanced western countries.
AZ you know very well that the term 'far-right' is not applied in general discussions on the economy or in fiscal terms. 'Far right' parties refers almost exclusively to their social policies. France's National Rally, Italy's Brothers of Italy or any other party labelled far-right will not be on the extreme liberal wing of economic theory - more likely the opposite.
If you looked at a party like the BNP, their economic policies are all about market intervention, giving workers stakes in the businesses, rhetoric against bankers etc. That stuff would typically be considered left-wing.
The left-right scale just doesn't really fit comfortably on the economic spectrum.
You do realise that by taking this position regarding centre ground that we should never have allowed Brexit. Half the population wanted to stay. Half wanted to leave. If half vote right and half vote left, you have political/ideological polarity i.e. there is no centrism. It simply doesn't exist in that form (in fact, it cannot). The state of having two opposite or contradictory tendencies, opinions, or aspects is the definition.
What you're alluding to and what we should be aiming for is consensus and respect of the two factions through mediation. Something our political systems and governments will not and never do and are not even set up to do. It requires great leadership and non-confrontational political debate. Ironically, something you advocate for on here.
Edit: that last part sounds like a dig, it isn't but we should all try and practice what we preach.
Edit, edit: in fact, it will be the ultimate downfall of humankind if we cannot grasp this and change our ways.
I think you are overthinking this.
I don't really have strong opinions on it - I just think that most elections are won by who occupies the centre ground because most advanced western countries are generally stable (ish!) and desire progress with stability - ie, some balance, ie, broadly centrist positions.
Referendums are, and should, be used sparingly, but thats not related to the general position of the British public I don't think.
I thought that was a fairly common opinion tbh!
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