40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

[JamesWales]

As far as your presence on here it is

Okaaaay!

[pipster]

So - 36 pages of high level debate and intense scrutiny of the problem by ccmb's finest international peace negotiators aka Sludge and Dorcus and they still havent come up with a solution.

Lads, please, come on - the world is waiting on you both.....

[ninian opinian]

So - 36 pages of high level debate and intense scrutiny of the problem by ccmb's finest international peace negotiators aka Sludge and Dorcus and they still havent come up with a solution.

Lads, please, come on - the world is waiting on you both.....

You think some posters on a message board have to come up with solutions to a war on the other side of the world? You will find that’s the job of world leaders. What we can do though is discuss it and and show our disgust at innocent children and babies being blown up by bloody bombs.

[pipster]

You think some posters on a message board have to come up with solutions to a war on the other side of the world? You will find that’s the job of world leaders. What we can do though is discuss it and and show our disgust at innocent children and babies being blown up by bloody bombs.

The laughable thing is that some people on the last 36 pages seem to act as if they know the solution and if only the rest of the world would listen to what they had to say, then the problem would be fixed

[stevo]

For me, not enough world leaders are calling out both Hamas and the Israeli government for their atrocities - they seem to have to side with one or the other. The mind boggles. And both Sunak and Starmer are a disgrace for not calling for an immediate ceasefire.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Jo Stephens , Cardiff Central MP who abstained from the vote to call for a cease fire has had her offices vandalised and daubed with red paint

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

For me, not enough world leaders are calling out both Hamas and the Israeli government for their atrocities - they seem to have to side with one or the other. The mind boggles. And both Sunak and Starmer are a disgrace for not calling for an immediate ceasefire.

I agree

[stevo]

Jo Stephens , Cardiff Central MP who abstained from the vote to call for a cease fire has had her offices vandalised and daubed with red paint

My MP voted against a ceasefire, but then again, he’s a Tory cnut who is pro-brexit, backed Boris throughout Partygate, an utterly despicable human being, so I wasn’t surprised in the least.

Abstaining that vote is even worse.

[jon1959]

For me, not enough world leaders are calling out both Hamas and the Israeli government for their atrocities - they seem to have to side with one or the other. The mind boggles. And both Sunak and Starmer are a disgrace for not calling for an immediate ceasefire.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

My MP voted against a ceasefire, but then again, he’s a Tory cnut who is pro-brexit, backed Boris throughout Partygate, an utterly despicable human being, so I wasn’t surprised in the least.

Abstaining that vote is even worse.

I always had Jo Stephens down as left wing and of course its her right to abstain but it surprised me

Maybe she's gunning for a job if starmer wins the election

[stevo]

I always had Jo Stephens down as left wing and of course its her right to abstain but it surprised me

Maybe she's gunning for a job if starmer wins the election

And that’s the problem. MPs only interested in their own career and not what’s best for the country/world. So, she’s as bad as Braverman in that respect.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

My MP voted against a ceasefire, but then again, he’s a Tory cnut who is pro-brexit, backed Boris throughout Partygate, an utterly despicable human being, so I wasn’t surprised in the least.

Abstaining that vote is even worse.

I always had Jo Stephens down as left wing and of course its her right to abstain but it surprised me

Maybe she's gunning for a job if starmer wins the election

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

And that’s the problem. MPs only interested in their own career and not what’s best for the country/world. So, she’s as bad as Braverman in that respect.

Well I certainly wouldn't be impressed if she was my mp

[the other bob wilson]

Don't agree with all of this article, but it's very close to my feelings on the whole thing.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...yahu-ceasefire

[JamesWales]

It's a good article. I think the hope is - and I think this is true - that Netanyahu is a product of the external very real threat posed by Hamas. Such a threat tends to lead to people wanting strong and uncomplicated leaders that in normal times would appeal much less. It's like if there's a spate of burglaries, protecting your home becomes an almost number one priority when you wouldn't normally think about it.

So the idea has to be that sort Hamas and you sort Netanyahu. The international community has to be hellbent on a two-state solution going forward, perhaps with an international transport 'bridge' between the west bank and Gaza. It sounds complicated but it could work in principle.

Anyone pushing against that, either proposing a greater Israel or a greater Palestine takes us further from peace in my opinion. Both sides can make claims to it, but it takes us further from long term peace IMO.

Out of interest, and I'm not sure how accurate they are at such times, but Netanyahu's party seems to lead in no opinion polls at the moment

[the other bob wilson]

It's a good article. I think the hope is - and I think this is true - that Netanyahu is a product of the external very real threat posed by Hamas. Such a threat tends to lead to people wanting strong and uncomplicated leaders that in normal times would appeal much less. It's like if there's a spate of burglaries, protecting your home becomes an almost number one priority when you wouldn't normally think about it.

So the idea has to be that sort Hamas and you sort Netanyahu. The international community has to be hellbent on a two-state solution going forward, perhaps with an international transport 'bridge' between the west bank and Gaza. It sounds complicated but it could work in principle.

Anyone pushing against that, either proposing a greater Israel or a greater Palestine takes us further from peace in my opinion. Both sides can make claims to it, but it takes us further from long term peace IMO.

Out of interest, and I'm not sure how accurate they are at such times, but Netanyahu's party seems to lead in no opinion polls at the moment

https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-8...ct-7-failures/

[jon1959]

Don't agree with all of this article, but it's very close to my feelings on the whole thing.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...yahu-ceasefire

I agree with some of it but its' main thrust is that in Israel it is Netanyahu and his latest far right government are the problem and that Hamas is just a rabid dog organisation of murderers bent on death and paradise.

Netanyahu and his fascist government are certainly a complete barrier to any solution, and Hamas has amongst its 30,000 fighters a large number of men who see no other way than murder and terror.

But this is Freedland doing his usual whitewash job for Zionism and presenting persecution of Palestinians as a recent phenomenon. It is also another opinion piece that ignores the complexity of Hamas. The military wing was proscribed by western governments as a terrorist organisation over 20 years ago. They only decided to add the Hamas health, housing and sewage workers to the list 2-3 years ago - as a political gesture. In the past 7-8 years Hamas modified its charter, made peace offers to Israel and accepted the idea of a 2 state solution - all moves ignored or rejected.

Most of the Hamas leaders living in luxury exile (not all) and many of the fighters are a total obstacle to peace, but most of their ordinary members and supporters will have to be part of a solution. Equally although Netanyahu and his mates are an obstacle to peace and so is the state ideology and many of the 600,000 illegal settlers on the West Bank (and beneficiaries of the recent ethnic cleansing in East Jerusalem), the people of Israel - especially the 80% who are Jewish - must be part of a solution.

None of that will happen if the Jonathan Freedland view that a few recent bad apples on both sides (but mainly the Palestinian side for him) are the only problem. It goes deeper and it goes back much longer.

[jon1959]

It's a good article. I think the hope is - and I think this is true - that Netanyahu is a product of the external very real threat posed by Hamas. Such a threat tends to lead to people wanting strong and uncomplicated leaders that in normal times would appeal much less. It's like if there's a spate of burglaries, protecting your home becomes an almost number one priority when you wouldn't normally think about it.

So the idea has to be that sort Hamas and you sort Netanyahu. The international community has to be hellbent on a two-state solution going forward, perhaps with an international transport 'bridge' between the west bank and Gaza. It sounds complicated but it could work in principle.

Anyone pushing against that, either proposing a greater Israel or a greater Palestine takes us further from peace in my opinion. Both sides can make claims to it, but it takes us further from long term peace IMO.

Out of interest, and I'm not sure how accurate they are at such times, but Netanyahu's party seems to lead in no opinion polls at the moment

It is much more the other way around. Hamas is a product of Netanyahu and Israeli leader like him who wanted to create a new force to undermine the PLO/Fatah, who needed an external threat (in addition to Iran!) to give cover to their Greater Israel strategy and military expansion, and who preferred to face Islamists than a secular opposition.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

I agree with some of it but its' main thrust is that in Israel it is Netanyahu and his latest far right government are the problem and that Hamas is just a rabid dog organisation of murderers bent on death and paradise.

Netanyahu and his fascist government are certainly a complete barrier to any solution, and Hamas has amongst its 30,000 fighters a large number of men who see no other way than murder and terror.

But this is Freedland doing his usual whitewash job for Zionism and presenting persecution of Palestinians as a recent phenomenon. It is also another opinion piece that ignores the complexity of Hamas. The military wing was proscribed by western governments as a terrorist organisation over 20 years ago. They only decided to add the Hamas health, housing and sewage workers to the list 2-3 years ago - as a political gesture. In the past 7-8 years Hamas modified its charter, made peace offers to Israel and accepted the idea of a 2 state solution - all moves ignored or rejected.

Most of the Hamas leaders living in luxury exile (not all) and many of the fighters are a total obstacle to peace, but most of their ordinary members and supporters will have to be part of a solution. Equally although Netanyahu and his mates are an obstacle to peace and so is the state ideology and many of the 600,000 illegal settlers on the West Bank (and beneficiaries of the recent ethnic cleansing in East Jerusalem), the people of Israel - especially the 80% who are Jewish - must be part of a solution.

None of that will happen if the Jonathan Freedland view that a few recent bad apples on both sides (but mainly the Palestinian side for him) are the only problem. It goes deeper and it goes back much longer.

It's hard to take sides and it's hard not to.

[truthpaste]

Show me evidence of God, show me God

Not fields , or the sky or the Bible

I want physical evidence of God . When ordinary people ask this question we are told he can't possibly be everywhere or appear in a gas or speak to people ........but this is what you lot tell us has happened

So get on with it

As a culture, we spend 25% (late September to late December) of every year rearranging our retail space to mark the official time of His *arrival. Do you know of anyone else in history who after 2023 years has this impact on most of the world? Also as a culture, no other name is mentioned as much in conversation, and no, I'm not including those who know who He is. I'm talking about people like you, and the nervous 'please shut the thread down' sort.

*Granted, the secular masses of most of Europe and beyond mainly can't quite remember why they are celebrating it

This clip with Alf Garnett shows how confused we are, and this was 51 years ago! >>> CLIP
NB: Start at 9m 45s if you are short of time.

Alf mentions the Middle East, and for those who want a heads up on the end game, then the God who has got every other prophecy 100% correct has stated this:-

Future Deliverance for Jerusalem:

This message concerning the fate of Israel came from the Lord: “This message is from the Lord, who stretched out the heavens, laid the foundations of the earth, and formed the human spirit. I will make Jerusalem like an intoxicating drink that makes the nearby nations stagger when they send their armies to besiege Jerusalem and Judah.
On that day I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock.
All the nations will gather against it to try to move it, but they will only hurt themselves.
Zechariah 12:1-3

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

As a culture, we spend 25% (late September to late December) of every year rearranging our retail space to mark the official time of His *arrival. Do you know of anyone else in history who after 2023 years has this impact on most of the world? Also as a culture, no other name is mentioned as much in conversation, and no, I'm not including those who know who He is. I'm talking about people like you, and the nervous 'please shut the thread down' sort.

*Granted, the secular masses of most of Europe and beyond mainly can't quite remember why they are celebrating it

This clip with Alf Garnett shows how confused we are, and this was 51 years ago! >>> CLIP
NB: Start at 9m 45s if you are short of time.

Alf mentions the Middle East, and for those who want a heads up on the end game, then the God who has got every other prophecy 100% correct has stated this:-

Future Deliverance for Jerusalem:

This message concerning the fate of Israel came from the Lord: “This message is from the Lord, who stretched out the heavens, laid the foundations of the earth, and formed the human spirit. I will make Jerusalem like an intoxicating drink that makes the nearby nations stagger when they send their armies to besiege Jerusalem and Judah.
On that day I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock.
All the nations will gather against it to try to move it, but they will only hurt themselves.
Zechariah 12:1-3

This is not again any evidence at all of his existence , you have quoted words from a book , that's nothing , oh Jesus said this etc .....no evidence , might as well quote Janet and John

We as idiotic humans spend millions on being scared of imaginary ghosts and monsters .....Halloween......absolutely no evidence for them either but we spend money ......doesn't mean they exist

The extension of what was originally a pagan festival into ten days of stupidity is as much to do with capitalist marketing as it is to do with any evidence of God

You celebrate God because you are from western Europe

If you were from aborigine Australia or the deepest jungles of South America......where thankfully the rampant Christian missionaries didn't get to .....you would be relying on something else

It's simply an accident of birth and the power of brainwashing that makes you believe in something that doesn't exist

If you were a native red Indian in Canada you would worship the sun or the rain

At least they respect the land which is more than can be said for a lot of your western Christians

[life on mars]

Isreal ned to finish the job now and not ceasefire or pull way they hated anyway so its win win .


Next steps :
Defeat Hamas
Let folk in Gaz and Palestinians hold free form fear democratic elections not one run by proxy countries and terrorists .
Gaza and the new state run by UN not any arabic state ,

And Hamas who actually murder their own week in and week out if they defy them ( see below ,Corby you watching ) have theri funds frozen in their cosy Turkish accounts .

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/ne...2014-conflict/

The solution to peace likes with the Palestinians wanting to talk peace they had a chance with Clinton's not perfect deal buy hey it GAVE MORE THAN THEY HAVE NOW .

This is a lot like Ukraine who gave in and surrounded their nuclear capability , Israel have done the same with withdrawing from Gaza for what benefit you may ask .

The west and its donations are quietly funding death ,weapon purchase , tunnel building as Hamas annual billion turnover proves

[truthpaste]

This is not again any evidence at all of his existence , you have quoted words from a book , that's nothing , oh Jesus said this etc .....no evidence , might as well quote Janet and John

We as idiotic humans spend millions on being scared of imaginary ghosts and monsters .....Halloween......absolutely no evidence for them either but we spend money ......doesn't mean they exist

The extension of what was originally a pagan festival into ten days of stupidity is as much to do with capitalist marketing as it is to do with any evidence of God

You celebrate God because you are from western Europe

If you were from aborigine Australia or the deepest jungles of South America......where thankfully the rampant Christian missionaries didn't get to .....you would be relying on something else

It's simply an accident of birth and the power of brainwashing that makes you believe in something that doesn't exist

If you were a native red Indian in Canada you would worship the sun or the rain

At least they respect the land which is more than can be said for a lot of your western Christians

There's no shortage of evidence for anyone who takes the trouble to look.
Even the BBC don't deny the history of Christ and His extraordinary influence on the people of that generation and beyond.
Australia, NZ, Africa, South & North America and Asia are not Western Europe, but there are billions of people who currently serve Christ as Lord and God across those areas of the World.
Your choice of remaining in denial is a common one in the UK, but please don't suggest that because it's the choice of the majority, it's a choice that can be defended or debated successfully!
If it could then people like you and the Genie wouldn't be left with empty insults to aim at Christians or cartoon images of an old man with a grey beard

[truthpaste]

Isreal ned to finish the job now and not ceasefire or pull way they hated anyway so its win win .


Next steps :
Defeat Hamas
Let folk in Gaz and Palestinians hold free form fear democratic elections not one run by proxy countries and terrorists .
Gaza and the new state run by UN not any arabic state ,

And Hamas who actually murder their own week in and week out if they defy them ( see below ,Corby you watching ) have theri funds frozen in their cosy Turkish accounts .

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/ne...2014-conflict/

The solution to peace likes with the Palestinians wanting to talk peace they had a chance with Clinton's not perfect deal buy hey it GAVE MORE THAN THEY HAVE NOW .

This is a lot like Ukraine who gave in and surrounded their nuclear capability , Israel have done the same with withdrawing from Gaza for what benefit you may ask .

The west and its donations are quietly funding death ,weapon purchase , tunnel building as Hamas annual billion turnover proves

Next steps :
Defeat Hamas
Let folk in Gaz and Palestinians hold free form fear democratic elections not one run by proxy countries and terrorists.
Gaza and the new state run by UN not any arabic state.

I completely agree. Let's hope they have the wisdom to do so.

[Heathblue]

Not read the whole Fred, it appears to be the usual suspects saying the same thing time and time again so don't know if any one has brought this up but i did listen to what i thought a decent podcast on the subject this morning, The chap an attorney, who was trying to convince his listeners and it's not the 1st time I've heard this, it's a genocide for a land grab and the trillions of federal reserve notes in oil that sits beneath the land, coupled with a larger Suez canal that is to be built, when you think that wars have been started for oil previously, it doesn't seem too big a conspiracy theory.