Why is it with the Tories we have

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Cost of living crisis.

Austerity.

Constant ways of reducing public spending to the point where essential services are under threat.

Why is life, for those at the bottom of the ladder, always harder for those under a Tory government.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Cost of living crisis.

Austerity.

Constant ways of reducing public spending to the point where essential services are under threat.

Why is life, for those at the bottom of the ladder, always harder for those under a Tory government.

Because those at the bottom of the ladder in general don't vote in the numbers those higher up do so they are not punished as much for being horrible by those that are affected

It's noticeable that the conservatives gave the go ahead for the furlough scheme during covid because although it went totally against their philosophy of being tight gits .....

The còvid affected everybody , especially their core voters and ....if they hadn't done it their would have been rioting in the streets

Again those on
Universal credit ......lower
Down the ladder .....had a few extra quid for a year or so but as soon as they could the Tories snatched it off them ......again they could get away with it .....but mess about with the core voters and they suddenly find the cash .....eg furlough

What makes me laugh is that the Tories tell their voters oh we will cut taxes for you , vote for us

Then the services these tories get from local councils are cut because money from central government is reduced

And these same people then moan about crap services from councils .....

I hope to christ the penny drops one day

[the other bob wilson]

Cost of living crisis.

Austerity.

Constant ways of reducing public spending to the point where essential services are under threat.

Why is life, for those at the bottom of the ladder, always harder for those under a Tory government.

Be fair Eric, looks like we’re going to get a pre election tax cut tomorrow because of how they’ve managed to “halve inflation”.

[Heathblue]

Be fair Eric, looks like we’re going to get a pre election tax cut tomorrow because of how they’ve managed to “halve inflation”.

It's O. K TOBW, you don't have to pretend, early retirement and your top up state pension is safe, life's good isn't it?. On my way to work to pay in some more contributions towards your early retirement I'm not bitter, happy to help 👍

[the other bob wilson]

It's O. K TOBW, you don't have to pretend, early retirement and your top up state pension is safe, life's good isn't it?. On my way to work to pay in some more contributions towards your early retirement I'm not bitter, happy to help ��

And that ladies and gentleman is what is known as playing the man, rather than the ball.

[stevo]

Why is life, for those at the bottom of the ladder, always harder for those under a Tory government.

Because Tories and the people that vote for them only care about themselves.

[pipster]

Because Tories and the people that vote for them only care about themselves.

Blair - did he only care about himself ? , what about Lord Kinnock, MP pension, MEP pension, EU commissioner pension (whilst employing his son and his wife) before they also both became MEPs - a real man of the people there.
How about Geoff Hoon with his private consultancy work whilst defence secretary, Mandelson and the cash for passports - the list is endless on both sides.

Rachel Reeves and her own book - copy and pasted from wikipedia, or perhaps the leadership skills or Angie Raynor - cant wait for that sh1t show to happen.

Gordon announces he has ended boom and bust - just before he bust's the economy with his light hand on the finance regs. Once you have been around the block a few times your start to see the pattern. 12 years in power for Blair / Brown - 13 years for the tories - too much for any party. Yet in Wales we have 26 years of Labour....

[JamesWales]

Cost of living crisis.

Austerity.

Constant ways of reducing public spending to the point where essential services are under threat.

Why is life, for those at the bottom of the ladder, always harder for those under a Tory government.

Is this true though?

I'm sure there's an interesting debate to be had, but it's unlikely when the starting point is the scenario outlined.

Is post covid Tory Britain worse than post financial crisis Labour Britain?

Is Tory Britain worse than Social Democrat Germany or Socialist Party Spain or Portugal, or centrist France?

Do we actually have austerity now?

Did Labour oppose austerity a decade ago?

Is life at the bottom really harder now than 12, 15 years ago?

If so, are these all the result of the UK govt or are other factors at play?

Where we remove the Tories from many policies such as in Wales, do there problems get much better?

[pipster]

I'm sure there's an interesting debate to be had, but it's unlikely when the starting point is the scenario outlined.
To answer

Is post covid Tory Britain worse than post financial crisis Labour Britain? - no

Is Tory Britain worse than Social Democrat Germany or Socialist Party Spain or Portugal, or centrist France? no - possibly worst in Germany

Do we actually have austerity now? - no I dont belileve so - see below though.

Did Labour oppose austerity a decade ago? - yes

Is life at the bottom really harder now than 12, 15 years ago? - inflation caused by various external factors didnt help but coming bacj down to within range now.

If so, are these all the result of the UK govt or are other factors at play? - other factors as we know, Covid, Ukraine, Brexit uncertainty - now mostly gone.

Where we remove the Tories from many policies such as in Wales, do there problems get much better? - worse. Labour over spent the budget by 900,000,000 (20% of the budget I think) and has now cut every one of the Senedd's dept spending - apart from climate change. Drakeford doing his own austerity now.

[JamesWales]

I'm sure there's an interesting debate to be had, but it's unlikely when the starting point is the scenario outlined.
To answer

Is post covid Tory Britain worse than post financial crisis Labour Britain? - no

Is Tory Britain worse than Social Democrat Germany or Socialist Party Spain or Portugal, or centrist France? no - possibly worst in Germany

Do we actually have austerity now? - no I dont belileve so - see below though.

Did Labour oppose austerity a decade ago? - yes

Is life at the bottom really harder now than 12, 15 years ago? - inflation caused by various external factors didnt help but coming bacj down to within range now.

If so, are these all the result of the UK govt or are other factors at play? - other factors as we know, Covid, Ukraine, Brexit uncertainty - now mostly gone.

Where we remove the Tories from many policies such as in Wales, do there problems get much better? - worse. Labour over spent the budget by 900,000,000 (20% of the budget I think) and has now cut every one of the Senedd's dept spending - apart from climate change. Drakeford doing his own austerity now.

That's more or less my assessment. Although Labour did support austerity, although perhaps it wouldn't have continued as long under them.

I don't think we are remotely better off living in Wales. Not one bit, perhaps aside from the generally cheaper housing.

There's a lot of societal changes too that have happened in the last decade or more. Now the govt could (and in my opinion should) have mitigated these more, but things like mobile phones, the internet, technological changes, WFH, even social media, Instagram etc..it changes how we interact and is making us unhappier IMO.

None of it means the govt come off scot-free. Not at all. I just don't think its much better elsewhere and I don't think it would be much different under another govt.

This idea of a "tory cost of living crisis". That basically ignores the millions and millions of people essentially experiencing the same issues across the whole of the west

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

As sure as Tuesday follows Monday the ccmb young conservatives appear with the yeah but no but yeah what about bollocks

It's nauseating

Tax cuts ......oh blimey an election is on its way , the tories are cutting tax when the public finances are in a fecking load of pig swill

Absolute snake oil salesmen and complete chancers

I can't wait till they get leathered at the election , poor old penny mordant with her pathetic stand up and fight clown show

Bunch of liars

[pipster]

As sure as Tuesday follows Monday the ccmb young conservatives appear with the yeah but no but yeah what about bollocks

It's nauseating

Tax cuts ......oh blimey an election is on its way , the tories are cutting tax when the public finances are in a fecking load of pig swill

Absolute snake oil salesmen and complete chancers

I can't wait till they get leathered at the election , poor old penny mordant with her pathetic stand up and fight clown show

Bunch of liars

Why not answer some of the points ?
As well as compare to how we are doing in terms of cancer wait times, education results, 'road building', infrastructure, Senedd budget cuts - that sort of thing..

[JamesWales]

Why not answer some of the points ?
As well as compare to how we are doing in terms of cancer wait times, education results, 'road building', infrastructure, Senedd budget cuts - that sort of thing..

Answer the questions without insulting the posters asking them. Now that would be a fine thing!

[Dave Blue]

Answer the questions without insulting the posters asking them. Now that would be a fine thing!

It’s difficult not to insult Tories. Evil is evil.

[JamesWales]

It’s difficult not to insult Tories. Evil is evil.

Good one.

[Eric Cartman]

Because they aren't very good at adapting to different situations, conservatism is basically the application of low risk policies that have always just about worked. They don't take into account extraordinary circumstances so for example, when debt was super cheap, they weren't borrowing to build, they were cutting and celebrating those cuts as if they were winning.

The main problem is however that the UK is in terminal decline, hastened by brexit and we all have very little to look forward to.

People seem so numb to the fact that real terms incomes for middle earners have reduced so drastically in 10 years that it is pretty much unprecedented. Rising prices, frozen tax bands and below inflation pay rises eventually mean you can't afford a loaf of bread with your monthly take home, at some point this has to reverse otherwise the future is inevitable.

Oh and house prices, it's a perfect storm of shit.

[Heathblue]

And that ladies and gentleman is what is known as playing the man, rather than the ball.

Yup acknowledged, been the victim myself on occasions so I thought I'd join the party. Apologies if any offence taken I was being mischievous,

[Eric Cartman]

Is this true though?

I'm sure there's an interesting debate to be had, but it's unlikely when the starting point is the scenario outlined.

Agreed, but I don't think your starting point of 'everything is good' is productive either

Is post covid Tory Britain worse than post financial crisis Labour Britain?

At a macro level possible not, at an individual level yes. Another decade of below inflation pay rises, frozen tax bands, rampant increase in COL and we have more people who are left vulnerable and unable to withstand even the slightest economic shock.

Is Tory Britain worse than Social Democrat Germany or Socialist Party Spain or Portugal, or centrist France?

Worse for who? For median and low earners, yes it is likely to be.

https://www.ft.com/content/85971473-...3-efcad0829044

Do we actually have austerity now?

We just canned our largest infrastructure project in decades replacing it with hot air, are cutting benefits during the winter of a cost of living crisis and freezing tax bands for the 28 millionth year in a row. I will let you decide.

Did Labour oppose austerity a decade ago?

No, they recognised they were losing that argument and played politics. Austerity is likely to be our biggest mistake, even in the context of Brexit. We had a stagnant economy while other countries were taking advantage of favourable conditions and the tories managed to trick people into thinking they were doing well

Is life at the bottom really harder now than 12, 15 years ago?

Yes definitely

If so, are these all the result of the UK govt or are other factors at play?

Both

Where we remove the Tories from many policies such as in Wales, do there problems get much better?

Wales is an almost unprecedented basket case and it shows how ****ed the UK is that tories use it as a benchmark, the answer above applies to Wales as well.

.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Why not answer some of the points ?
As well as compare to how we are doing in terms of cancer wait times, education results, 'road building', infrastructure, Senedd budget cuts - that sort of thing..

I am not interesting in political debate with tory boys

You lot are weasels with more faces that a town hall clock

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

It’s difficult not to insult Tories. Evil is evil.

I can't be having anything to do with these ferrets

Fancy sitting in a cafe having a cuppa with someone who is going to vote for cuts to welfare and social services .....

It's like sleeping with the enemy

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Because Tories and the people that vote for them only care about themselves.

Tories don't give a toss about the crumbling schools system , welfare , social services

Unless of course it affects their family directly then they are out there with the placards marching up and down the street

[Wash DC Blue]

My question is were such draconian austerity measures required and what would have happened if they weren’t implemented?

It seems as though they were never reversed and as a result there have been catastrophic consequences for law and order in society as well as council services.

The lack of police on the streets as well as the rise in tents on city centre streets tell me things haven’t gone well.

[JamesWales]

I can't be having anything to do with these ferrets

Fancy sitting in a cafe having a cuppa with someone who is going to vote for cuts to welfare and social services .....

It's like sleeping with the enemy

You realise the UK is spending more on welfare than ever before, right?

[JamesWales]

.

Interesting and cheers for answering. I don't disagree with all of that at all.

For clarity, my starting point isn't that 'everything is good' at all. Quite the opposite in fact. I would probably be as critical of our society and economy as anyone. My point is that those with the starting point that it's all the govts fault and a change fixes that are, in my opinion, incorrect. It would likely change nothing.

Elsewhere you said that Britain is in terminal decline. What evidence is there of that, or that it's particularly different to other countries? Because that's another of my broad points - the issues we experience are broadly speaking felt everywhere else. And that suggests the cause and the solutions lie elsewhere too.

[Eric Cartman]

Interesting and cheers for answering. I don't disagree with all of that at all.

For clarity, my starting point isn't that 'everything is good' at all. Quite the opposite in fact. I would probably be as critical of our society and economy as anyone. My point is that those with the starting point that it's all the govts fault and a change fixes that are, in my opinion, incorrect. It would likely change nothing.

Elsewhere you said that Britain is in terminal decline. What evidence is there of that, or that it's particularly different to other countries? Because that's another of my broad points - the issues we experience are broadly speaking felt everywhere else. And that suggests the cause and the solutions lie elsewhere too.

It's more of a nod to the fact that whilst all our problems aren't caused by 2008, austerity, brexit, COVID, they were petrol on the fire, but the trend was established before then.

We do seem to have made more bad decisions than most countries and the UK is a definite outlier in its hostility towards working people over the past two decades. Disposable income in the middle and lower bands does tend to be higher in other comparable countries but broadly speaking everybody is facing the same issues.

When we have discussed this before I always get the impression you think I'm doom mongering and that the true picture is quite rosey. Triple lock is a great example of why I am so negative about the UK. Both major parties know that triple lock is unsustainable in even the medium term but have no plan for saying 'job done' and phasing it into something that makes more sense now.