When is being skint ?

[Heathblue]

Don't get out that much TBF but tonight in town, money seemed no object
Out in the port tomorrow night, don't expect it to be much different, booze it would appear seems to be exempt from financial problems,

[Gofer Blue]

I would suggest that poverty is subjective. I like this definition:

Subjective poverty is an individual's perception on his or her financial/material situation.

The poorest person in Cardiff is very wealthy in comparison to a person living in Uganda (where the average wage is about $80 per month). An employed person in say Kampala (capital city of Uganda) would be relatively wealthy compared to a person living in a rural village in Uganda (I don't have any actual data but I would say that is a reasonable assumption) but still relatively poor compared to the poorest person in Cardiff.

I use Uganda as an example because I have been there several times. Having been there, I can say that no-one in the UK lives in such poverty believe me.

[the other bob wilson]

Is the centre of Cardiff on the penultimate Friday before Christmas the right time to draw conclusions about how well off or otherwise people are? I’d have thought you’d get a better idea on a “normal” Friday night in, say, February.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

It's all about sampling. Those put and about engaging in revelry are those that can afford it. Those staying at home aren't visible.

[Heathblue]

Is the centre of Cardiff on the penultimate Friday before Christmas the right time to draw conclusions about how well off or otherwise people are? I’d have thought you’d get a better idea on a “normal” Friday night in, say, February.

I disagree, and think it's an excellent barometer, if you are skint on a Friday night in February, you are skint on a Friday night in December, no?

[Heathblue]

I would suggest that poverty is subjective. I like this definition:

Subjective poverty is an individual's perception on his or her financial/material situation.

The poorest person in Cardiff is very wealthy in comparison to a person living in Uganda (where the average wage is about $80 per month). An employed person in say Kampala (capital city of Uganda) would be relatively wealthy compared to a person living in a rural village in Uganda (I don't have any actual data but I would say that is a reasonable assumption) but still relatively poor compared to the poorest person in Cardiff.

I use Uganda as an example because I have been there several times. Having been there, I can say that no-one in the UK lives in such poverty believe me.

👍

[Doucas]

So standards of living aren't falling and there aren't 4 million kids living in poverty (1 million of these are living in destitution) because you saw people drinking on a Friday night in December in the richest area of Wales?

[Gofer Blue]

I would suggest that poverty is subjective. I like this definition:

Subjective poverty is an individual's perception on his or her financial/material situation.

The poorest person in Cardiff is very wealthy in comparison to a person living in Uganda (where the average wage is about $80 per month). An employed person in say Kampala (capital city of Uganda) would be relatively wealthy compared to a person living in a rural village in Uganda (I don't have any actual data but I would say that is a reasonable assumption) but still relatively poor compared to the poorest person in Cardiff.

I use Uganda as an example because I have been there several times. Having been there, I can say that no-one in the UK lives in such poverty believe me.

Also: when we talk about poverty most people in the U.K. have no idea what real poverty looks like first-hand.

[pipster]

Is the centre of Cardiff on the penultimate Friday before Christmas the right time to draw conclusions about how well off or otherwise people are? I’d have thought you’d get a better idea on a “normal” Friday night in, say, February.

Go into Cardiff on ANY saturday afternoon - and from about 2pm onwards the pubs and bars are busy and it has been that way for a while now. The city centre is less retail and more drinking and eating these days. Obviously if you no social life, no mates and dont go out - then you wouldnt notice the change

[the other bob wilson]

Go into Cardiff on ANY saturday afternoon - and from about 2pm onwards the pubs and bars are busy and it has been that way for a while now. The city centre is less retail and more drinking and eating these days. Obviously if you no social life, no mates and dont go out - then you wouldnt notice the change

What’s that got to do with what I said?

[Heathblue]

Go into Cardiff on ANY saturday afternoon - and from about 2pm onwards the pubs and bars are busy and it has been that way for a while now. The city centre is less retail and more drinking and eating these days. Obviously if you no social life, no mates and dont go out - then you wouldnt notice the change

My Lad plays in town most weekends and often in the week, I usually ask him if town was busy, cannot remember him once saying "no it was dead" he's occasionally said not as busy as usual, the trays of shots along with the round, was noticeable for me last night, but as previously said I'm not a massive town goer and prefer to say local, on getting off the bus last night we did do our one for the road! and popped into the Birch for a swifty, the Birch seemed to be doing O.K, my Doris was in the Birch Lunchtime as well yesterday and said it was busy, she's not an alcho but retired yesterday so was saying Tarra to her employer, we just continued the drinks in town with a bite to eat to mark the occasion and will be continued tonight in the Port with further drinks, a meal and will go to the Potters to watch the band, there does seem to be plenty of wedge about for alcohol and food.

[pipster]

What’s that got to do with what I said?

you said "I’d have thought you’d get a better idea on a “normal” Friday night in, say, February."
I said "Go into Cardiff on ANY saturday afternoon - and from about 2pm onwards the pubs and bars are busy and it has been that way for a while now"
But if you have no social life or go into the city centre you wouldnt notice.

Town seems to be busy for bars / pubs and restaurants when I'm there. I work in the city centre about 3 days a week and usually on a saturday morning I pop in to go shopping a couple of times a month. St mary st / high st the bars / pubs are busy from early afternoon onwards

[MOZZER2]

in its basic format its boils down to the haves and have-nots

the haves will still spend
the have-nots won't

gofer raises a very good point about real poverty relative to other countries . After visiting China in 1995 i can relate to that post

[the other bob wilson]

you said "I’d have thought you’d get a better idea on a “normal” Friday night in, say, February."
I said "Go into Cardiff on ANY saturday afternoon - and from about 2pm onwards the pubs and bars are busy and it has been that way for a while now"
But if you have no social life or go into the city centre you wouldnt notice.

Town seems to be busy for bars / pubs and restaurants when I'm there. I work in the city centre about 3 days a week and usually on a saturday morning I pop in to go shopping a couple of times a month. St mary st / high st the bars / pubs are busy from early afternoon onwards

You know what, I used to watch Cardiff RFC a lot in the eighties and quite often I’d go for a couple of pints in a pub close to the ground before a three o clock kickoff and whichever pub I went in at around 2 was pretty full.it would be the same if I met up after a City game with mates who’d playedparks football that afternoon and, at about 5.30 on a Saturday afternoon the pub would have a lot more people than I would have expected there - it’s always been like you say on a Saturday in my experience.

None of what you say had anything to do with what I said originally - all that I did was ask whether the penultimate Friday before Christmas was the right time to come to any conclusions about people spending more on booze than they were. I didn’t say Heathblue was wrong, I just wondered whether you’d get a truer picture at other times of the year.

I’ve been tea total for a good few years now, so I don’t get in pubs anywhere near as much as I did, but I do know that pubs, especially pubs in Wales, have been closing at record rates in recent years. If the next few years see pubs opening up again or new ones being built, then, in all likelihood, Heathblue would be right.

[jon1959]

in its basic format its boils down to the haves and have-nots

the haves will still spend
the have-nots won't

gofer raises a very good point about real poverty relative to other countries . After visiting China in 1995 i can relate to that post

I agree with most of that, but what is your definition of 'real poverty'?

I have seen people and places (in south east Asia) where there is little or no state health or education support, where wages are a pittance and where the daily struggle is for food, water or heating/shelter. The same is true in many other parts of the world where subsistence farming has been destroyed by massive agri-businesses, in urban shanty towns and war zones. It is generally not true in Europe or North America - but that doesn't mean there is no poverty there.

The standard or definition for poverty does not have to mean starving to death. It is a social definition - one based on a society's view of what a minimum should look like in income, secure and safe housing, access to affordable food and basic services. In the UK there are hundreds of thousands (if not millions) who don't meet the minimum standard we set ourselves - often whilst working in 2 or 3 jobs and claiming benefits, living in insecure and/or damp housing, and through a postcode lottery excluded from some basic services. That is poverty. Those amongst us are not out downing shots in Cardiff city centre on a Saturday afternoon.

[Heathblue]

I agree with most of that, but what is your definition of 'real poverty'?

I have seen people and places (in south east Asia) where there is little or no state health or education support, where wages are a pittance and where the daily struggle is for food, water or heating/shelter. The same is true in many other parts of the world where subsistence farming has been destroyed by massive agri-businesses, in urban shanty towns and war zones. It is generally not true in Europe or North America - but that doesn't mean there is no poverty there.

The standard or definition for poverty does not have to mean starving to death. It is a social definition - one based on a society's view of what a minimum should look like in income, secure and safe housing, access to affordable food and basic services. In the UK there are hundreds of thousands (if not millions) who don't meet the minimum standard we set ourselves - often whilst working in 2 or 3 jobs and claiming benefits, living in insecure and/or damp housing, and through a postcode lottery excluded from some basic services. That is poverty. Those amongst us are not out downing shots in Cardiff city centre on a Saturday afternoon.

T.O.B.W makes a good point about the amount of boozers shutting down, a lot of this will have been offset with the change in habits of buying cheaper grog from the supermarkets, I also think that habits have changed as well, me and Doris fall into this category. we go out early and come home before closing time, pubs were rammed yesterday around 17.00 but were comfortable around 21.00 (the pubs we went in)

[Tuerto]

I work in Ely A lot. Plenty of the properties i visit don't put their heating on in winter, don't have carpets. They're poor, the words '**** All' spring to mind. The kids Bedrooms are sparse and then there's all the other shit that goes with poverty, like social problems, lack of choice, no control, services that have been decimated due to cuts. All in all it's a horrible thing to witness. It's getting worse.

[Tuerto]

I agree with most of that, but what is your definition of 'real poverty'?

I have seen people and places (in south east Asia) where there is little or no state health or education support, where wages are a pittance and where the daily struggle is for food, water or heating/shelter. The same is true in many other parts of the world where subsistence farming has been destroyed by massive agri-businesses, in urban shanty towns and war zones. It is generally not true in Europe or North America - but that doesn't mean there is no poverty there.

The standard or definition for poverty does not have to mean starving to death. It is a social definition - one based on a society's view of what a minimum should look like in income, secure and safe housing, access to affordable food and basic services. In the UK there are hundreds of thousands (if not millions) who don't meet the minimum standard we set ourselves - often whilst working in 2 or 3 jobs and claiming benefits, living in insecure and/or damp housing, and through a postcode lottery excluded from some basic services. That is poverty. Those amongst us are not out downing shots in Cardiff city centre on a Saturday afternoon.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

I once went to a champagne bar and every there was drinking champagne! Don't tell me there is poverty in this country.

[Heathblue]

I once went to a champagne bar and every there was drinking champagne! Don't tell me there is poverty in this country.

T.B.F TBG, your memoirs on here of your extensive carbon footprint gloriously detailing of your worldwide travels obviously unaware of the CO2 harm you were taking part in, Undoubtly you will have seen poverty on your travels, have you ever lived it ?

[Heathblue]

I work in Ely A lot. Plenty of the properties i visit don't put their heating on in winter, don't have carpets. They're poor, the words '**** All' spring to mind. The kids Bedrooms are sparse and then there's all the other shit that goes with poverty, like social problems, lack of choice, no control, services that have been decimated due to cuts. All in all it's a horrible thing to witness. It's getting worse.

Circumstances caused by myself, we had to go through most of last winter without heating, without light's and with only one of the leccy socket circuits working, it was quite unpleasant and obviously hate to be like this permantly, have now sorted the heating, lights and the upstairs sockets now working, will finalise the the downstairs sockets during the holiday period which will release the next phase, this all started as we wanted to sort the lads Bedroom, now we are coming to the final improvements, he picks up the keys this week for the house he has taken a mortgage on but the positive is that we will definitely look to sell up once he is settled, I fancy one of the downstairs flats on the development just by the 3 arches bridge on the right hand side as you go down the hill, we will only need a smaller place to see us out to the box, else we will definitely move out of Cardiff.

[Maurice Swan]

I work in Ely A lot. Plenty of the properties i visit don't put their heating on in winter, don't have carpets. They're poor, the words '**** All' spring to mind. The kids Bedrooms are sparse and then there's all the other shit that goes with poverty, like social problems, lack of choice, no control, services that have been decimated due to cuts. All in all it's a horrible thing to witness. It's getting worse.

The definition reads "Households are considered to be below the UK poverty line if their income is below 60% of the median household income after housing costs for that year."

There is no doubt that there is relative poverty in the UK...BUT for many it is also a lifestyle choice of priorities.
How many seemingly poverty stricken families have mobile phones.....Netflix....SKY Sports....smoke etc.?

I am fortunate that I COULD go out drinking if I wished, but it's not the norm here in France......I prefer to enjoy a few glass es of supermarket wine at he weekends. Besides which I am too stinky to pay €6-8 for 50cl lager....!

Like others, having travelled there is REAL poverty in many 'third world ' countries.

[lardy]

The definition reads "Households are considered to be below the UK poverty line if their income is below 60% of the median household income after housing costs for that year."

There is no doubt that there is relative poverty in the UK...BUT for many it is also a lifestyle choice of priorities.
How many seemingly poverty stricken families have mobile phones.....Netflix....SKY Sports....smoke etc.?

I am fortunate that I COULD go out drinking if I wished, but it's not the norm here in France......I prefer to enjoy a few glass es of supermarket wine at he weekends. Besides which I am too stinky to pay €6-8 for 50cl lager....!

Like others, having travelled there is REAL poverty in many 'third world ' countries.

Just about every adult needs a mobile phone nowadays, and you don't have to spend much on them. How many families like this have sky sports? I doubt many do, but you can't tell just by looking or assuming. About 60% of UK households have netflix, way more than have sky sports (about 23%) but that leaves a lot who don't, many of whom could well be a "seemingly poverty stricken family". Again, can't tell by looking at them.

As for smoking, it's addictive. Lots would like to give it up but struggle, and I do see fewer smokers out and about than in years past.

It's a bit sad to think that if a family has access to technology and entertainment then they can't really be poor.

[Maurice Swan]

Just about every adult needs a mobile phone nowadays, and you don't have to spend much on them. How many families like this have sky sports? I doubt many do, but you can't tell just by looking or assuming. About 60% of UK households have netflix, way more than have sky sports (about 23%) but that leaves a lot who don't, many of whom could well be a "seemingly poverty stricken family". Again, can't tell by looking at them.

As for smoking, it's addictive. Lots would like to give it up but struggle, and I do see fewer smokers out and about than in years past.

It's a bit sad to think that if a family has access to technology and entertainment then they can't really be poor.

Well....I for one does not have/use a mobile phone.....so ..60% have Netflix? I don't.....nor any other subscriptions.
Smoking....well if they prefer to do that than feed their family that is their choice isn't it?

...and NO it isn't sad that if they have to give up much of technology to not be poor...it is all relative...I never had technology when I was iup or early adult life...but did not consider myself poor..
Third world poverty is REAL...

[lardy]

Well....I for one does not have/use a mobile phone.....so ..60% have Netflix? I don't.....nor any other subscriptions.
Smoking....well if they prefer to do that than feed their family that is their choice isn't it?

...and NO it isn't sad that if they have to give up much of technology to not be poor...it is all relative...I never had technology when I was iup or early adult life...but did not consider myself poor..
Third world poverty is REAL...

If you don't have a phone, don't have netflix, didn't have technology growing up in the 1950s, maybe you should run some courses and give everyone the chance to turn out as great as you have!