Get Ready For Sir Kier Flip Flop Nos 29 On His Green Agenda

[jon1959]

Re: Get Ready For Sir Kier Flip Flop Nos 29 On His Green Agenda

And I understand why people will vote for Starmer's Labour because of this. My view is that, when you award Starmer's and Blair's version of Labour with electoral success, you allow them to say "See? This is the sort of socialism the British people want". So you get Corbyn ostracised by his own party and a continual shift to the right so that Labour and Conservatives are almost indistinguishable. And maybe that model of the Labour Party is indeed what the British people want. But it isn't what I want and I won't lend them my vote to bolster their claims.

I understand that and sympathise with that view - and am on the cusp of going the same way. But I am still, just, by my fingernails holding on to the view that as someone is going to hold governmental power I prefer it to be the ones who might do a bit less damage and a bit more good (however fine the margins).

I also still believe that a Labour Party that has organisational links to the labour movement can have its behaviour and policy choices modified from below - sometimes. I respect some of its MPs and many of its activists. It is not the same party I joined in the late 1970s (and again in the mid 1980s and late 2010s - 31 years all told) - ripping up Clause 4, turning conference into an annual rally, purging the membership and relying or corporate donors and lobbyists for funding and direction have gutted Labour - but the last vestiges remain (just) of the party it used to be.

[pipster]

Re: Get Ready For Sir Kier Flip Flop Nos 29 On His Green Agenda

Not sure why he is flip flopping so much, the Labour conference and their union bosses have wet his agenda for him.
Maybe he now realised being in govt is a bit than just carping from the side lines like an old pantomime dame after a few guns
A bit like what nick clegg ended up being. If you suns don’t add up you don’t win the election

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Get Ready For Sir Kier Flip Flop Nos 29 On His Green Agenda

Labour don't have to commit to anything, they are going to walk the next election because the Tories have made such a mess of everything.

https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/...tion_main.html

Whilst I agree that it likely makes sense not to bury themselves. The state of the country now means a Corbyn 17 or 19 manifesto without Corbyn in charge would absolutely walk it - they can commit to bold policies without risking their position imo.

Unfortunately reevesonomics (/standard British establishment economics) is not going to fix Britain's problems.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Get Ready For Sir Kier Flip Flop Nos 29 On His Green Agenda

When the Tories announced in October that the bankers bonus would be scrapped, Labour said this:

Darren Jones, Labour's shadow chief secretary to the Treasury, said the decision "tells you everything you need to know" about the priorities of the government.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-67206997

Now they say they support it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68145720

Apart from the general benefits of a bit of a change and some of the rhetoric on a few things is there any real difference at all between Labour and Tories?

It was a meme policy that probably doesn't achieve anything but ditching their opposition to scrapping it looks shady, either they believe in the symbolism/intention of it or they don't. If they think it is pointless because there are ways to get around it and that is why they aren't going to oppose it then they should say that.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Get Ready For Sir Kier Flip Flop Nos 29 On His Green Agenda

Not sure why he is flip flopping so much, the Labour conference and their union bosses have wet his agenda for him.
Maybe he now realised being in govt is a bit than just carping from the side lines like an old pantomime dame after a few guns
A bit like what nick clegg ended up being. If you suns don’t add up you don’t win the election

'union bosses' is such a cliche Tory attack line that implies the party is controlled by some kind of shady cabal. Essentially you are talking about a bit of influence held by a few very public figures who are democratically elected by millions of ordinary working people.

The fact that this line is pushed by a PM who has had his bollocks cut off by the right of his party because he had to make a deal with them to avoid losing a members vote, is frankly ridiculous. The fact that some people have eaten it up and parrot it, is even more ridiculous.

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Get Ready For Sir Kier Flip Flop Nos 29 On His Green Agenda

It was a meme policy that probably doesn't achieve anything but ditching their opposition to scrapping it looks shady, either they believe in the symbolism/intention of it or they don't. If they think it is pointless because there are ways to get around it and that is why they aren't going to oppose it then they should say that.

I'm beginning to come around to the idea that this is a brilliant election strategy to deal with Tory and Right Wing Press critique. Basically, if Labour are attacked on any policy....then change it....scrap it....ditch it. Create a set of new principles. It's really clever when you think about it. I may rejoin if that's the case. It's the only thing that I'm left clinging onto.

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Get Ready For Sir Kier Flip Flop Nos 29 On His Green Agenda

'union bosses' is such a cliche Tory attack line that implies the party is controlled by some kind of shady cabal. Essentially you are talking about a bit of influence held by a few very public figures who are democratically elected by millions of ordinary working people.

The fact that this line is pushed by a PM who has had his bollocks cut off by the right of his party because he had to make a deal with them to avoid losing a members vote, is frankly ridiculous. The fact that some people have eaten it up and parrot it, is even more ridiculous.

:thumbup:

[pipster]

Re: Get Ready For Sir Kier Flip Flop Nos 29 On His Green Agenda

At the last election in 2019 labour registered donations of 5.4 million, of that over 5 million came from trade unions (fullfact.org)
So yeah trade unions definitely don’t set policy 😀

[jon1959]

Re: Get Ready For Sir Kier Flip Flop Nos 29 On His Green Agenda

At the last election in 2019 labour registered donations of 5.4 million, of that over 5 million came from trade unions (fullfact.org)
So yeah trade unions definitely don’t set policy ��

The Labour Party raised £5.6m from large private donations in the second quarter of 2023 alone. Trades Unions have been reducing their contributions as the party ingores them and ignores the votes of conference. Under Corbyn most funding came from the expanded membership subscription base (since then a quarter of a million members have left or been pushed out) and small scale individual donations. Now it is corporate and rich donor funding - and that is where you should look to see how policy is set!

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Get Ready For Sir Kier Flip Flop Nos 29 On His Green Agenda

The Labour Party raised £5.6m from large private donations in the second quarter of 2023 alone. Trades Unions have been reducing their contributions as the party ingores them and ignores the votes of conference. Under Corbyn most funding came from the expanded membership subscription base (since then a quarter of a million members have left or been pushed out) and small scale individual donations. Now it is corporate and rich donor funding - and that is where you should look to see how policy is set!

:thumbup:

[pipster]

Re: Get Ready For Sir Kier Flip Flop Nos 29 On His Green Agenda

The Labour Party raised £5.6m from large private donations in the second quarter of 2023 alone. Trades Unions have been reducing their contributions as the party ingores them and ignores the votes of conference. Under Corbyn most funding came from the expanded membership subscription base (since then a quarter of a million members have left or been pushed out) and small scale individual donations. Now it is corporate and rich donor funding - and that is where you should look to see how policy is set!

Large business only gets involved when they want the next party in Govt to make policies they want. Just like they did under Blair and dodgy Mandelson. Which is why nothing ever changes regardless of who is in power.

[life on mars]

Re: Get Ready For Sir Kier Flip Flop Nos 29 On His Green Agenda

Nearly flipped Rachel of the Reeves struggled to answer the £28 billion green spend commitment ?

Apprantly since its was announced there's been 28 recorded changes / flips/ avoidance blurting by (Sir?) Kier
( good old lefty / anti royalist alledged Marxist, still not handed his Sir title albeit its been stripped off social media ) Poor version of a great ex lord and real socalist Mr Tony Benn .

Feckless hypocritical lot...

[life on mars]

Re: Get Ready For Sir Kier Flip Flop Nos 29 On His Green Agenda

The Labour Party raised £5.6m from large private donations in the second quarter of 2023 alone. Trades Unions have been reducing their contributions as the party ingores them and ignores the votes of conference. Under Corbyn most funding came from the expanded membership subscription base (since then a quarter of a million members have left or been pushed out) and small scale individual donations. Now it is corporate and rich donor funding - and that is where you should look to see how policy is set!

The as you call it (.expanded membership) was built on a stupid Ed Miliband where you could donate the value of a Mars bar to become a member .
That attracted the loops.
Even communist party decided not to stand and put power behind JC ( not Jesus Christ BTW)
That put the worse leader Labour has ever had in saw a collapse of faith from electorate .( handing 80 seat whitewash to Boris).
As soon as fee was raised they fled back to thier burrows and little magazines, blogs to moan and groan and resort to dressing like festival goers and matching / glueing themselves to what ever they could find .

Unions have are are certainly effecting Labour policy and covertly with Labour trying to pressure the UK with excessive strikes and demands over the decades of Tory power

Unions fund s / works for Labour in many covert ways including sponsorship of MP's , property , events, fundraising demonstration , manipulation of workers..

I attended many union anc Labour conferences for a good decade and it stunk of old boys ( yes old boys, not ladles and ordinary members they were not allowed to the top event or table ) the dreadful sexism and anti semstism was there to see and touch at the conference entry stalls and funded fringe events.

Thier behaviour at the evening events were quite eye opening to say the least , at least the free booze and ladies added to the ego's of the elected elderly large bellued ( white )MP

I left Labour because of its hypocrisy, racist , politcal gestures, antisemitic values bullying , aresment , anti western values just to garner muselim voters , keeping talented women at bay and away from leadership.

If you vote for them just because you hate the others just consider tge abovev I'd suggest that's borderline hypocrisy.

You can PM me if you want and I can explain my experiences, you don't have to agree but try and be a bit less disparaging it's a bad socalist trait when hunting In packs safe on a site like this...

Your clearly an intelligent person however I note your very patience with others whose terminologies, rants language borders on discrimination , guess if they had right leaning views, languages you'd be after em on your limited inclusiveness for all socalist bandwagon 😉

[pipster]

Re: Get Ready For Sir Kier Flip Flop Nos 29 On His Green Agenda

Listening to John barnes on 5live today sing rapper’s delight, May Sir keir could do his version
I said flip flop flipperty flop
And a flip flip flipperty flop….