What do you understand a FUNDAMENTALIST to be?

[Gofer Blue]

Religious fundamentalism is the practice of either an individual or a group that look for literal interpretations of original religious books or text. They then practice these teaching in all aspects yo their lives. They believe that their beliefs are the only ones that are 'true' and there is no other interpretation. There is no other option or alternatives to beliefs or teachings.

I have a negative opinion as the lack of flexibility or willingness to accept other people's opinions or beliefs I find confrontational and not pragmatic. It also limits to compromise.

I throwing in that individual religious fundamentalism such as your own differs wildly from some group fundamentalism which is much more problematic in some parts of the world and included violence, retribution and tyranny.

Although you have very strong convictions and beliefs about your faith I'd suggest you also have the capacity to compromise.

The fundamentalism I was referring to, in the context of my original post differs greatly to your understanding and another context all together.

Best of luck to you butt.

You probably should not make that assumption about me. Yes, have a strong faith and I am a much more compassionate person since becoming a Christian, (probably deemed a “nice person” in the eyes of the world), but don't forget I am a follower of Jesus.

Now Jesus also had very strong beliefs, was tolerant, but uncompromising. Unlike the “religious” people of his time he was at ease mixing with the “undesirable” folk like prostitutes, beggars, lepers, tax collectors (who were despised as they were collaborators with the hated Roman occupiers) etc. I would argue that if he was intolerant or judgemental of these people he would have stayed well clear of them.

There is the example of the woman who was caught having sex with a man who was not her husband and in accordance with the Jewish law she was about to be stoned to death by a crowd but Jesus intervened. He spoke those now famous words: let anyone of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her, (John 8:7-11) whereby the crowd quietly drifted away, one by one. Jesus had saved the woman from death but then he said to her, go now and leave your life of sin, an uncompromising message if ever there was one i.e. he loved the sinner but hated the sin. He unashamedly did not compromise in any way, but he had compassion on her.

I believe that Jesus was God in human form so in that way he 100% knew what it was like to be human, subject to all the same things that we are: pain, love, moods, temptations, anger etc., yet, unlike me and every person on planet Earth, he was sinless. Other faiths deny this and believe he was just a good human being. I can tolerate the fact that they have this opinion but that's between them and God. I will not compromise my position.

Jesus said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.” (John 14:6). At face value this seems to be a very arrogant statement, but there is no escaping it, it is crystal clear and he said it! Now folk can either accept it or reject it as being a typical piece of Christian dogma. Again, folk should be made aware of it (that's my job as a Christian so they have a chance to consider it*) but of course they have the free will to make their own decision. It's between them and God, I've done my bit so please leave me out of it. Rest assured I will not resort to coercion or violence or remove parts of anyone's anatomy to “convince” them!

I go about my daily life trying to live in peace with everyone I come across as Jesus would expect me to, but I am not a saint in the vernacular sense (although in the biblical sense I am). The apostle Paul wrote that these are the attributes of a “real” Christian: love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. (Galatians 5: 22-23). I can put my hand up and honestly say that I fail every day in most of these!

*”The Great Commission” - Jesus told his disciples to “go and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and teaching them to obey everything I have told you. And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age”
(Matthew 28:16-20).

[Jordi Culé]

You probably should not make that assumption about me. Yes, have a strong faith and I am a much more compassionate person since becoming a Christian, (probably deemed a “nice person” in the eyes of the world), but don't forget I am a follower of Jesus.

Now Jesus also had very strong beliefs, was tolerant, but uncompromising. Unlike the “religious” people of his time he was at ease mixing with the “undesirable” folk like prostitutes, beggars, lepers, tax collectors (who were despised as they were collaborators with the hated Roman occupiers) etc. I would argue that if he was intolerant or judgemental of these people he would have stayed well clear of them.

There is the example of the woman who was caught having sex with a man who was not her husband and in accordance with the Jewish law she was about to be stoned to death by a crowd but Jesus intervened. He spoke those now famous words: let anyone of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her, (John 8:7-11) whereby the crowd quietly drifted away, one by one. Jesus had saved the woman from death but then he said to her, go now and leave your life of sin, an uncompromising message if ever there was one i.e. he loved the sinner but hated the sin. He unashamedly did not compromise in any way, but he had compassion on her.

I believe that Jesus was God in human form so in that way he 100% knew what it was like to be human, subject to all the same things that we are: pain, love, moods, temptations, anger etc., yet, unlike me and every person on planet Earth, he was sinless. Other faiths deny this and believe he was just a good human being. I can tolerate the fact that they have this opinion but that's between them and God. I will not compromise my position.

Jesus said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.” (John 14:6). At face value this seems to be a very arrogant statement, but there is no escaping it, it is crystal clear and he said it! Now folk can either accept it or reject it as being a typical piece of Christian dogma. Again, folk should be made aware of it (that's my job as a Christian so they have a chance to consider it*) but of course they have the free will to make their own decision. It's between them and God, I've done my bit so please leave me out of it. Rest assured I will not resort to coercion or violence or remove parts of anyone's anatomy to “convince” them!

I go about my daily life trying to live in peace with everyone I come across as Jesus would expect me to, but I am not a saint in the vernacular sense (although in the biblical sense I am). The apostle Paul wrote that these are the attributes of a “real” Christian: love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. (Galatians 5: 22-23). I can put my hand up and honestly say that I fail every day in most of these!

*”The Great Commission” - Jesus told his disciples to “go and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and teaching them to obey everything I have told you. And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age”
(Matthew 28:16-20).

Thanks Gofer.

An interesting read on your personal thoughts, reflections and how you practice and live by your beliefs.

The tolerance and compassion you practice towards others is only due to your beliefs, you didn't hold these qualities prior to becoming a committed follower of Jesus?

The contrast between your understanding of God is a massive contrast to the Christian Nationalism of some groups in the USA who advocate living and practicing religious values from the Old Testament and this includes stoning individuals for adultery.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...sm-1234797127/

Different interpretations of God and how he would act I suppose?

[truthpaste]

Thanks Gofer.

An interesting read on your personal thoughts, reflections and how you practice and live by your beliefs.

The tolerance and compassion you practice towards others is only due to your beliefs, you didn't hold these qualities prior to becoming a committed follower of Jesus?

The contrast between your understanding of God is a massive contrast to the Christian Nationalism of some groups in the USA who advocate living and practicing religious values from the Old Testament and this includes stoning individuals for adultery.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...sm-1234797127/

Different interpretations of God and how he would act I suppose?

I'm sure Gofer will give you another helpful reply, however just on your final point of 'interpreting' God and His Word, the Bible:-

1. Like any book, we should never dive in and out to extract information without knowing the surrounding context. So many people do, and end up misrepresenting that book, whatever it may be.
2. While Christians still read and learn from the Old Testament, it now mainly provides a platform and deeper interpretaion for what we discover in the New Testament (NT); and in the NT we read about the origin of the Church (see Acts chapter 2) and therefore the instructions (New Covenant) that God has for today, which does NOT include stoning people! There is a lot more to this than what I have said, this is just an overview of the contrast between the Old and New Testaments and God's dealings with mankind.
If you have further questions then please don't hold back.

[Gofer Blue]

Thanks Gofer.

An interesting read on your personal thoughts, reflections and how you practice and live by your beliefs.

The tolerance and compassion you practice towards others is only due to your beliefs, you didn't hold these qualities prior to becoming a committed follower of Jesus?

The contrast between your understanding of God is a massive contrast to the Christian Nationalism of some groups in the USA who advocate living and practicing religious values from the Old Testament and this includes stoning individuals for adultery.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...sm-1234797127/

Different interpretations of God and how he would act I suppose?

Jordi – in answer to your first question, no, I did not hold those qualities before I became a Christian. I was intolerant, judgemental and very lacking in compassion! I am ashamed to admit it but on occasions these traits can occasionally still creep into my mind when I observe what is going on in the world. My main negative reaction these days is anger, anger at all the injustices in the world. I can even get angry with God which is stupid really as the things I get angry about are man-made, but I guess he is big enough to take it.

Re your second question: I am very wary of far right American Christians, not that I know any personally but from what I observe on TV and also from some of the YouTube videos that are out there. One sickening image I remember was of Donald Trump waving a Bible about in front of a church in the USA somewhere. The verse that comes to mind is: By their deeds you will know them. Does a man gather grapes from thorns or figs from briars?” (Matthew 7:16).

The story in the link you provided is quite shocking. As I’ve said before, Jesus came with a new covenant which supercedes the OT covenant. It was quite common in OT days for folk to sacrifice animals as burnt offerings to God as atonement for their sins but Jesus himself was ultimately the supreme sacrifice so this practice is no longer necessary.

The OT takes sin very seriously, as a contamination that can disrupt the good order God places in creation and that can potentially cause chaos in the world. To cleanse sin from the community, life was required. I think Moses who gave the laws to the people was overzealous in his understanding of what God wanted. It was very important to keep order especially when the Jews were involved in the exodus. Of course, it’s very difficult for us 21st century folk to get our head around these ancient customs. Maybe this is where these American Christian Nationalists are getting their ideas from i.e. remove offenders from society (permanently) in order to maintain social order!

[truthpaste]

I agree with Gofer Blue's comments (above) and when he says:

To cleanse sin from the community, life was required. I think Moses who gave the laws to the people was overzealous in his understanding of what God wanted. It was very important to keep order especially when the Jews were involved in the exodus. Of course, it’s very difficult for us 21st century folk to get our head around these ancient customs.

I just want to say that God gave us the Law (mainly via Moses) to show us that we are all law breakers, and don't meet His required standards. Or as Romans 3v23 puts it, "For ALL have sinned and fall short of God's glory" - only one Man in history has ever lived and met those standards, and that of course is Christ Jesus.
We will all ultimately die because we are sinners, 'the wages of sin is death' (Romans 6v23), however death could NOT take Christ, because He was without sin - so to fulfill His Mission - He chose to lay down His perfect life (on the Cross) as an offering to God the Father so that we (through that perfect sacrifice) can be declared righteous before a Holy God. Everyone who repents and accepts that Gift of forgiveness and choose Christ as their Lord & God will be forgiven, immediately and forever.

This is the key message of the entire Bible, and I appreciate that the above summary may produce many other questions; however if you want to ask them here of via PM then I would be delighted to answer them.

[goats]

I would answer that by saying that I consider I wasted my life BEFORE I became a Christian at the age of 34. When I look back I can scarcely believe how my life has changed since then. I have done so much in the service of Jesus to share his love in practical ways with others, something I would never have done before, being a pretty self centred, I'm alright Jack, prat that I was. I will not elaborate any further because, as the apostle Paul said, we are to boast only about the Lord (Jesus) alone and not what we have done in his name.

Love to know what you have done in fact? Or have you just become a decent person after realising you were just a bellend before? I dint mean to jump to conclusions but it’s something I’ve seen first hand with a few born again I know….

[goats]

You probably should not make that assumption about me. Yes, have a strong faith and I am a much more compassionate person since becoming a Christian, (probably deemed a “nice person” in the eyes of the world), but don't forget I am a follower of Jesus.

Now Jesus also had very strong beliefs, was tolerant, but uncompromising. Unlike the “religious” people of his time he was at ease mixing with the “undesirable” folk like prostitutes, beggars, lepers, tax collectors (who were despised as they were collaborators with the hated Roman occupiers) etc. I would argue that if he was intolerant or judgemental of these people he would have stayed well clear of them.

There is the example of the woman who was caught having sex with a man who was not her husband and in accordance with the Jewish law she was about to be stoned to death by a crowd but Jesus intervened. He spoke those now famous words: let anyone of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her, (John 8:7-11) whereby the crowd quietly drifted away, one by one. Jesus had saved the woman from death but then he said to her, go now and leave your life of sin, an uncompromising message if ever there was one i.e. he loved the sinner but hated the sin. He unashamedly did not compromise in any way, but he had compassion on her.

I believe that Jesus was God in human form so in that way he 100% knew what it was like to be human, subject to all the same things that we are: pain, love, moods, temptations, anger etc., yet, unlike me and every person on planet Earth, he was sinless. Other faiths deny this and believe he was just a good human being. I can tolerate the fact that they have this opinion but that's between them and God. I will not compromise my position.

Jesus said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.” (John 14:6). At face value this seems to be a very arrogant statement, but there is no escaping it, it is crystal clear and he said it! Now folk can either accept it or reject it as being a typical piece of Christian dogma. Again, folk should be made aware of it (that's my job as a Christian so they have a chance to consider it*) but of course they have the free will to make their own decision. It's between them and God, I've done my bit so please leave me out of it. Rest assured I will not resort to coercion or violence or remove parts of anyone's anatomy to “convince” them!

I go about my daily life trying to live in peace with everyone I come across as Jesus would expect me to, but I am not a saint in the vernacular sense (although in the biblical sense I am). The apostle Paul wrote that these are the attributes of a “real” Christian: love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. (Galatians 5: 22-23). I can put my hand up and honestly say that I fail every day in most of these!

*”The Great Commission” - Jesus told his disciples to “go and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and teaching them to obey everything I have told you. And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age”
(Matthew 28:16-20).

It does amaze me somewhat that people actually believe the stuff written about a bloke called Jesus 2000 yrs ago, it’s more than likely all bollocks, like most old stories, which seem to grow in obscureness as the years roll by. Not forgetting that the church used fear to rule so would regularly peddle lies and mis information to control the people. Lastly, stuff that was relevant so long ago, really isn’t now.
Morals and being kind, curtious etc will always be in favour but looking how beliefs of just 20/30 years ago are not tolerated anymore and some that might have you clipped 100 yrs ago, like being gay, are now fine, make stuff written so long ago almost completely irrelevant. You will never see that though….I fully get that…

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Christians always come out with this Jesus said this when he spoke to the disciples etc etc

How do they know what this Jesus character said ?

It was 2000 years ago for gawds sake and what he was supposed to have said was sometimes reported several hundred years after his death

I mean if I was going to devote my life to someone I would want more evidence than what may have been said 2000 years ago

According to Jesus, Jesus taught us , John said when speaking to the Hebrews......etc etc

Seriously at least science proves that if you don't drink water for 2 weeks you will snuff it .......fact

It's all fairy tales and religious people are being conned

[goats]

Christians always come out with this Jesus said this when he spoke to the disciples etc etc

How do they know what this Jesus character said ?

It was 2000 years ago for gawds sake and what he was supposed to have said was sometimes reported several hundred years after his death

I mean if I was going to devote my life to someone I would want more evidence than what may have been said 2000 years ago

According to Jesus, Jesus taught us , John said when speaking to the Hebrews......etc etc

Seriously at least science proves that if you don't drink water for 2 weeks you will snuff it .......fact

It's all fairy tales and religious people are being conned

This is exactly what I was alluding too…it’s just nonsense that anyone knows anything about back then. Someone wrote scripts of it did they? So who was that? Someone with an agenda? The local drunk or a vicar trying to control people with fear as was the way…..
Whatever makes you happy, great, but in my eyes you’re just wasting your life dedicating your entire being to it. Just be nice and treat people like you like to be….its simple.

[jeepster]

This is exactly what I was alluding too…it’s just nonsense that anyone knows anything about back then. Someone wrote scripts of it did they? So who was that? Someone with an agenda? The local drunk or a vicar trying to control people with fear as was the way…..
Whatever makes you happy, great, but in my eyes you’re just wasting your life dedicating your entire being to it. Just be nice and treat people like you like to be….its simple.

True,you do not have to be a christian to treat others with respect.

[Dave Blue]

Christians always come out with this Jesus said this when he spoke to the disciples etc etc

How do they know what this Jesus character said ?

It was 2000 years ago for gawds sake and what he was supposed to have said was sometimes reported several hundred years after his death

I mean if I was going to devote my life to someone I would want more evidence than what may have been said 2000 years ago

According to Jesus, Jesus taught us , John said when speaking to the Hebrews......etc etc

Seriously at least science proves that if you don't drink water for 2 weeks you will snuff it .......fact

It's all fairy tales and religious people are being conned

Faith is accepting something even though you haven’t seen it. Surely you can grasp that? Don’t you think there must be something in ‘these fairy stories’ you easily dismiss that has brought people to faith for 2000 years when other ‘fairy stories’ don’t last 2 minutes? There is little ‘control’ on our lives these days yet this faith survives and is prospering all over the world. A bit deep to dismiss casually as bollocks don’t you think?

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Faith is accepting something even though you haven’t seen it. Surely you can grasp that? Don’t you think there must be something in ‘these fairy stories’ you easily dismiss that has brought people to faith for 2000 years when other ‘fairy stories’ don’t last 2 minutes? There is little ‘control’ on our lives these days yet this faith survives and is prospering all over the world. A bit deep to dismiss casually as bollocks don’t you think?

People have been indoctrinated by the state, by conquering powers and their community regarding religions and millions of people believe in dogmas other than Christianity. Indeed, even Abrahamism has such deep schisms that they perceived the role of Jesus differently.
Christianity was transported around Europe by the Roman Empire and by subsequent colonial expansion from countries that were under the yoke of that Empire originally.
Language travelled along that same conduit and that's why most South Americans speak Spanish and are Catholics by default - and let's not forget than non-believers around the world were punished for being non-believers (or deemed as being punished in various types of hell) and persecuted for expounding a different model of the universe than stated in various religious tomes.
The Bible didn't land in Earth in the format it is now and has been tinkered with, edited, parts thrown out and those parts remain are often contradictory, ridiculously fanciful (talking snakes, talking donkeys, virgin births etc) and are merely the product of bronze age primitivity. The various authors thereof knew very little, if anything, about microbes, atoms, electricity, plate tectonics, the universe and a million other things.
A great many of stories in the Bible were lifted from preceding religions, which few adherents seem to know about or take on board.
It's fascinating folklore but it's not stand-alone stuff if you study religion. And religion has not been a free choice historically. Children have been indoctrinated by fear and reward of religions in their communities for millennia. It's no coincidence that believers tend to follow the religion of their immediate community rather than have an overview of world religions. It's indoctrination and without sufficient proof for critical thinkers.
To believe in a talking snake and the Garden of Eden (also lifted from previous religions) is pure unquestioning gullibility - just as many of the stories are. People in other cultures and who have been similarly indoctrinated still believe in a god with an elephant's head and gods who are polar bears and lizards. It's just a case of unquestioning belief in something that unknown primitive people came up with.
I can't remember having a discussion with any believers who acknowledge that their religion was grafted from a preceding one as they tend not to look into things that much and merely see their version of their religion as a template for all else to fit in with. Funnily enough, their religion and schism thereof, is usually the first one they are exposed to as a child.
I would be surprised if you were to come across a member of the Inuit people who believed in Shiva, someone raised as a Catholic in Cardiff who believed in the polar bear god or someone from Outer Mongolia who believed in Wodin or Janus.
The language we speak and the religions we traditionally worshipped throughout history are merely cultural appropriations.
Fascinating - but it's folklore.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Faith is accepting something even though you haven’t seen it. Surely you can grasp that? Don’t you think there must be something in ‘these fairy stories’ you easily dismiss that has brought people to faith for 2000 years when other ‘fairy stories’ don’t last 2 minutes? There is little ‘control’ on our lives these days yet this faith survives and is prospering all over the world. A bit deep to dismiss casually as bollocks don’t you think?

Dave God has had 2000 years to give us evidence of his existence

I require evidence not someone telling me that Jesus said to someone in chapter 4 verse 17 that we should all love each other etc etc

It's happening again in this thread

If I boil the kettle I get hot water ......fact

If its a hot summer and I don't water the plants they die .....fact

In the winter its colder than it is in the summer

Facts

Christians , Muslims etc all tell us about stuff that has no basis in fact and in the case of Christians in particular they flip and flop continually

An old lady from a church is ill ......the church says it will have prayers for her ......she dies ......it was gods will .......not oh these prayers were a waste of time .....I wonder if this god and Jesus thing is nonsense ?

You simply can't debate the facts with religious people as they don't have any

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

True,you do not have to be a christian to treat others with respect.

Christians think their morality and kindness comes from God and Jesus

If you say that millions of people are kind and caring and live in communities where there is no knowledge of God or the Bible and these people are kind and caring because they just are ......Christians will say God is spreading his love even to people who don't know he's there

It's fairytale nonsense and they have an answer for everything but it's all based on nothing

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Faith in God is very low in scientists


And very high in poor populations with little education



It's surely no surprise that poverty striken Africa and South America has huge levels of religious activity .......mostly started by missionaries ......and brain washing

But in advanced , educated society religion is far less of a factor ........

If religion is growing then the declining Church numbers in the UK suggest that it isn't the case here

[Jordi Culé]

Jordi – in answer to your first question, no, I did not hold those qualities before I became a Christian. I was intolerant, judgemental and very lacking in compassion! I am ashamed to admit it but on occasions these traits can occasionally still creep into my mind when I observe what is going on in the world. My main negative reaction these days is anger, anger at all the injustices in the world. I can even get angry with God which is stupid really as the things I get angry about are man-made, but I guess he is big enough to take it.

Re your second question: I am very wary of far right American Christians, not that I know any personally but from what I observe on TV and also from some of the YouTube videos that are out there. One sickening image I remember was of Donald Trump waving a Bible about in front of a church in the USA somewhere. The verse that comes to mind is: By their deeds you will know them. Does a man gather grapes from thorns or figs from briars?” (Matthew 7:16).

The story in the link you provided is quite shocking. As I’ve said before, Jesus came with a new covenant which supercedes the OT covenant. It was quite common in OT days for folk to sacrifice animals as burnt offerings to God as atonement for their sins but Jesus himself was ultimately the supreme sacrifice so this practice is no longer necessary.

The OT takes sin very seriously, as a contamination that can disrupt the good order God places in creation and that can potentially cause chaos in the world. To cleanse sin from the community, life was required. I think Moses who gave the laws to the people was overzealous in his understanding of what God wanted. It was very important to keep order especially when the Jews were involved in the exodus. Of course, it’s very difficult for us 21st century folk to get our head around these ancient customs. Maybe this is where these American Christian Nationalists are getting their ideas from i.e. remove offenders from society (permanently) in order to maintain social order!

Cheers for your very personal contribution. Takes something to do that on an open forum but I guess you're happy answering any questions.

If religion/Christianity works for you then great. I've no problem with people's personal beliefs, it's a bit colloquial and probably simplistic but "whatever floats your boat..."

I obviously 'don't believe' but do recognise religion can make some people better personalities for whatever reasons that maybe.

I'm an atheist but there again so was Han Solo.

I live with a church goer and alhough we have had theological discussions it's never descended into argument and they've never felt the need to suggest my lifestyle or beliefs are wrong.

I do take issue with any religious groups/parties who try to set an agenda or pass down doctrines on others where my use of the term 'fundamentalist' was used, with a negative view. You've taken your time to clear that up and we've agreed the term can be construed and interpreted in different ways with a number of meanings.

[goats]

Faith is accepting something even though you haven’t seen it. Surely you can grasp that? Don’t you think there must be something in ‘these fairy stories’ you easily dismiss that has brought people to faith for 2000 years when other ‘fairy stories’ don’t last 2 minutes? There is little ‘control’ on our lives these days yet this faith survives and is prospering all over the world. A bit deep to dismiss casually as bollocks don’t you think?

It’s hardly surviving is it? Barely anyone under 75 goes to church. Religion causes far more issues than it solves in my eyes. The only young people I know that became religious were lost souls, desperately seeking help somehow be it from drugs, abuse or a bad upbringing…..

[jon1959]

Fundamentalist:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...allowed-caning

[Gofer Blue]

Love to know what you have done in fact? Or have you just become a decent person after realising you were just a bellend before? I dint mean to jump to conclusions but it’s something I’ve seen first hand with a few born again I know….

Let's just say I have "gone the extra mile" many, many times, something which I would never even have considered before. As you say, changed lives are the hallmarks of born-again Christians.

[Gofer Blue]

Christians always come out with this Jesus said this when he spoke to the disciples etc etc

How do they know what this Jesus character said ?

It was 2000 years ago for gawds sake and what he was supposed to have said was sometimes reported several hundred years after his death

I mean if I was going to devote my life to someone I would want more evidence than what may have been said 2000 years ago

According to Jesus, Jesus taught us , John said when speaking to the Hebrews......etc etc

Seriously at least science proves that if you don't drink water for 2 weeks you will snuff it .......fact

It's all fairy tales and religious people are being conned

Sludge - I suspect if Jesus turned up at your house tomorrow you would still not accept it was all true - you would dismiss it as an hallucination/a conjuring trick/a hologram/a dream or a Tory scam.

BTW this often quoted old tale that the gospels were written hundreds of years after his death simply won't wash anymore, more like 50 to 60 years max. If anyone wanted to talk to me about significant events that happened 60 years I would easily be able to recall them. Obviously it would be my recollection of the event, other people would, I suspect, have a slightly different recollection - no surprise there. Examples would be the Cuban missile crisis (1962), the winter of 1962/63 and the assassination of JFK in 1963.

[Gofer Blue]

Cheers for your very personal contribution. Takes something to do that on an open forum but I guess you're happy answering any questions.

If religion/Christianity works for you then great. I've no problem with people's personal beliefs, it's a bit colloquial and probably simplistic but "whatever floats your boat..."

I obviously 'don't believe' but do recognise religion can make some people better personalities for whatever reasons that maybe.

I'm an atheist but there again so was Han Solo.

I live with a church goer and alhough we have had theological discussions it's never descended into argument and they've never felt the need to suggest my lifestyle or beliefs are wrong.

I do take issue with any religious groups/parties who try to set an agenda or pass down doctrines on others where my use of the term 'fundamentalist' was used, with a negative view. You've taken your time to clear that up and we've agreed the term can be construed and interpreted in different ways with a number of meanings.

No problem, always happy to share my views with others and never afraid of having my faith challenged. However as I always say, judge me by my actions not my words - somewhat difficult on an Internet forum of course! There must now be many people on this forum who have been exposed to Christian thinking (1650 views of this thread to date but only 44 replies, mostly from the same dozen or so people). In a sense that's all I can do then, I have shared the gospel as Jesus requires of his followers but the rest is up to them.

[Gofer Blue]

It does amaze me somewhat that people actually believe the stuff written about a bloke called Jesus 2000 yrs ago, it’s more than likely all bollocks, like most old stories, which seem to grow in obscureness as the years roll by. Not forgetting that the church used fear to rule so would regularly peddle lies and mis information to control the people. Lastly, stuff that was relevant so long ago, really isn’t now.
Morals and being kind, curtious etc will always be in favour but looking how beliefs of just 20/30 years ago are not tolerated anymore and some that might have you clipped 100 yrs ago, like being gay, are now fine, make stuff written so long ago almost completely irrelevant. You will never see that though….I fully get that…

In pretty short supply in this country these days I find. For example, our politicians aren't setting particularly good standards of morals, kindness or courtesy. Also this forum can sometimes be a microcosm in that regard!

[Gofer Blue]

Fundamentalist:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...allowed-caning

The characteristics of a Christian are love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Ask your self: by her actions does this woman fit this description?

[Gofer Blue]

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[Gofer Blue]

It’s hardly surviving is it? Barely anyone under 75 goes to church. Religion causes far more issues than it solves in my eyes. The only young people I know that became religious were lost souls, desperately seeking help somehow be it from drugs, abuse or a bad upbringing…..

Really?

Is that a bad thing then?