Angela Rayner is she in favour of protecting council homes

[jon1959]

Re: Angela Rayner is she in favour of protecting council homes

The housing association model is a better way - you own half - they own half. Damage the property wilfully - and you're out. Housing association help with big repairs etc. If the person decides to move out - Im not sure if the housing association buys them out or what.
Interesting to see what happens with council flats going up on the site where the council demolished the community centre. 81 flats going in there.

Shared ownership isn't 'the housing association model'.

It can apply to council housing new build as well as other registered providers.

There are about 110,000 housing association shared ownership homes out of 2.8m total stock. (Council housing - including ALMO managed - is down to about 1.6m).

[jon1959]

Re: Angela Rayner is she in favour of protecting council homes

The flip side to that is - your Dad could have bought and the money that went to the council could have been used to build another flat somewhere else. Building costs havent gone up as much as the property cost - so they could have even been able to build 2 flats.

What a load of ignorant cobblers!

Until the introduction of the Self Financing Housing Revenue Account in 2012 the government's housing subsidy rules effectively prevented any Council from using Right To Buy receipts to build replacement council housing.

Since then it has been possible - but still a proportion of the receipts had to be used to pay off historic debt.

In March last year the government made a big announcement that 100% of Right To Buy receipts could be used for Council new build - but didn't lift the cap that only 40% of development costs could be funded that way. Most Councils that were trying to build new homes were already at the 40% limit so the announcement made no practical difference.

The key fact remains what it has been since Thatcher massively expanded Right To Buy in 1980 - the capital receipt from sales is a fraction of the value of the property because of the discount. New build costs have always outstripped values even if they weren't discounted for Right To Buy sales.

The Councils that owned the Right To Buy property usually funded them with a 60 year loan from the Public Works Loan Board (finally abolished by the government in 2020 and absorbed into HM Treasury). Councils still had to carry on paying off the historic debt when their rental income stream had been stopped by the sale. The capital receipt - before 2012 - went towards that debt but very often - depending on values and age of the property - there remained a debt for other tenants to pay via their rents!

Angela Raynor does not come out of this well. Eric C's dad does.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Angela Rayner is she in favour of protecting council homes

So, what you’re saying is we should have put the house on the market for a lot less than £10,000 in 2018 some forty two years after my parents bought the house?

You can't justify the sale of community housing wether you benefit from it or not

The fault lies with the system allowing the sale of council housing to tenants

I am not slagging off you or your parents the system is wrong and the likes of rayner is a hypocrite

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Angela Rayner is she in favour of protecting council homes

When my nan died my dad was given the opportunity to buy her council flat in London and refused because he hates the policy/saw it as highly damaging. Ultimately this has cost us hundreds of thousands and I imagine my sister's are deep down a bit peeved but over time my respect for that decision has grown and grown. It's a fair bit different to your situation as none of us would have lived in it, it would have only been an investment vehicle but I suppose the point is, if my dad can prioritise principles over wealth then I'd expect politicians to also.

Obviously the net effect is that someone else probably bought it and made a mint on it so taking a principled stance doesn't actually achieve anything in reality.

I think that stance is admirable and born out of principle

It's so damaging yet those that criticise council house sales buy them?

Unbelievable

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Angela Rayner is she in favour of protecting council homes

The flip side to that is - your Dad could have bought and the money that went to the council could have been used to build another flat somewhere else. Building costs havent gone up as much as the property cost - so they could have even been able to build 2 flats.
Until the population flattens out - we are going to have the same problem. UK population before Blair was around 60 million - it's now around 68-70 million depending on you you listen to.
Going back to Raynor - she is a fecking hypocrit, rides on the bandwagon of "Im one of you" when in reality she wants to be as far away from that as possible - until it comes to an election.

ps - did someone mention her boob job being done in a private hospital ?

The money from council house sales was legally prevented from being used to build new houses to replace them

It was ring fenced as the tory government called it

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Angela Rayner is she in favour of protecting council homes

What a load of ignorant cobblers!

Until the introduction of the Self Financing Housing Revenue Account in 2012 the government's housing subsidy rules effectively prevented any Council from using Right To Buy receipts to build replacement council housing.

Since then it has been possible - but still a proportion of the receipts had to be used to pay off historic debt.

In March last year the government made a big announcement that 100% of Right To Buy receipts could be used for Council new build - but didn't lift the cap that only 40% of development costs could be funded that way. Most Councils that were trying to build new homes were already at the 40% limit so the announcement made no practical difference.

The key fact remains what it has been since Thatcher massively expanded Right To Buy in 1980 - the capital receipt from sales is a fraction of the value of the property because of the discount. New build costs have always outstripped values even if they weren't discounted for Right To Buy sales.

The Councils that owned the Right To Buy property usually funded them with a 60 year loan from the Public Works Loan Board (finally abolished by the government in 2020 and absorbed into HM Treasury). Councils still had to carry on paying off the historic debt when their rental income stream had been stopped by the sale. The capital receipt - before 2012 - went towards that debt but very often - depending on values and age of the property - there remained a debt for other tenants to pay via their rents!

Angela Raynor does not come out of this well. Eric C's dad does.

This

[jon1959]

Re: Angela Rayner is she in favour of protecting council homes

If you are going to stand on a platform and protest / shout about something - and then do something else - it's wrong on every level. She will counter (like Abbott) that she was doing it for her family. Which is a valent attempt - but it doesnt wash.
Raynor has taken the offer (of Thatcher I guess) on the chance to get on the property ladder, be responsible for her own home, keep it clean and tidy, look after it and make the neighbourhood a better place. Far too often when it's the council's job to look after somewhere rather than the person living there - it doesnt take long for the neighbourhood to become a sh1thole.

She has deprived someone else the chance of making a start in life without having a mortgage round their necks. It should have been - move in - get a job get settled - save up - move out. But people dont - they realise they are on a good screw and wont shift - like Bob Crow - on 120K a year and still wouldnt move out of his council house

Council housing should have remained as a publicly owned rental option for anyone - regardless of circumstances.

As it was when the majority of Council housing was built on the back of slum clearances and war damage.

When I first started working for my Council housing service in the mid 1980s there was still a massive pride by many in being Council tenants. They felt Council housing was a social achievement. They felt pride in paying their rent. They had rights as tenants as well as obligations. They had no interest in becoming owner occupiers or seeing their home as an asset to make money from. Tenants Associations were strong, and important parts of the community and the local policy making process. They were consulted and usually involved in the way the Council developed.

Then came the growing impact of Right To Buy, underfunding, and national/local policies that created 'sink estates' and concentrations of poverty, deprivation, alcohol/drug dependency and mental health crises. From a tenure of choice, Council housing became a tenure of last resort - and the Labour Party under Blair (endorsing the Thatcher approach) did a lot to cement that view - although they did bring in the Decent Homes Programme and Choice Based Lettings.

But there is no reason why public housing cannot be a tenure of choice again - as it is in many European countries.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Angela Rayner is she in favour of protecting council homes

Council housing should have remained as a publicly owned rental option for anyone - regardless of circumstances.

As it was when the majority of Council housing was built on the back of slum clearances and war damage.

When I first started working for my Council housing service in the mid 1980s there was still a massive pride by many in being Council tenants. They felt Council housing was a social achievement. They felt pride in paying their rent. They had rights as tenants as well as obligations. They had no interest in becoming owner occupiers or seeing their home as an asset to make money from. Tenants Associations were strong, and important parts of the community and the local policy making process. They were consulted and usually involved in the way the Council developed.

Then came the growing impact of Right To Buy, underfunding, and national/local policies that created 'sink estates' and concentrations of poverty, deprivation, alcohol/drug dependency and mental health crises. From a tenure of choice, Council housing became a tenure of last resort - and the Labour Party under Blair (endorsing the Thatcher approach) did a lot to cement that view - although they did bring in the Decent Homes Programme and Choice Based Lettings.

But there is no reason why public housing cannot be a tenure of choice again - as it is in many European countries.

That is the bottom line

[pipster]

Re: Angela Rayner is she in favour of protecting council homes

The money from council house sales was legally prevented from being used to build new houses to replace them

It was ring fenced as the tory government called it

If true (no reason to doubt it isnt) then that is the wrong decision no what matter what colour your rosette is. If I remember right - at the time the council (in Cardiff) where I worked, wanted to move away from the ownership / management / mortgage and pass it over to some other housing association type organisation. Never saw the logic - as properties still got built - but had better management. (used to work in the housing dept at CCC) - it would have gone bust if a private company due to amount of dead wood it had.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Angela Rayner is she in favour of protecting council homes

The flip side to that is - your Dad could have bought and the money that went to the council could have been used to build another flat somewhere else. Building costs havent gone up as much as the property cost - so they could have even been able to build 2 flats.
Until the population flattens out - we are going to have the same problem. UK population before Blair was around 60 million - it's now around 68-70 million depending on you you listen to.
Going back to Raynor - she is a fecking hypocrit, rides on the bandwagon of "Im one of you" when in reality she wants to be as far away from that as possible - until it comes to an election.

ps - did someone mention her boob job being done in a private hospital ?

I think you probably need to pick a lane here. Either you support right to buy and therefore support Rayner or you don't support right to buy and therefore don't support Rayner. You can't pick and choose when you think it's good based solely on who did it, otherwise you are exactly what you are accusing her of being.

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not against the concept of right to buy, but the discounts on offer made no mathematical sense and also the money should be ring-fenced for house building to replace the stock.

It's noticeable that now that the private rental sector has grown massively (partly due to rtb) the conservatives are not in favour of an equivalent rtb scheme for those renters.

This policy ended up not being about home ownership, but about buying some votes in the short term and in the end, getting public housing stock into the hands of wealthy landlords. Either Thatcher was cynical or dumb, I was a mere boy back then so I will let others decide.

[pipster]

Re: Angela Rayner is she in favour of protecting council homes

That is the bottom line

I think the bottom for most families - is they want a house they can call their own and not be forced out of it when the kids move out and mum and dad no longer need a 4 bed council house. Families also want the security of ownership - I believe anyway.

[pipster]

Re: Angela Rayner is she in favour of protecting council homes

"I think you probably need to pick a lane here" - cheers for the advice - but Im good thanks. Throughout this thread - I think - I tried to see it from all sides.
So if you want to know my opinion - Raynor is a classic case of Dunning–Kruger when it comes to politics (the Assembly is riddled with them). She is a hypocrite and did what she did because it suited her circumstances rather than her morals. She could make a tidy amount for doing nothing. Or in your eyes a conservative. So maybe Raynor should pick a swim lane - she is either red or blue - rather than cherry pick as it suits her agenda

[life on mars]

Re: Angela Rayner is she in favour of protecting council homes

I thought she would be all for letting councils keep their housing stock rather than selling it. So find it strange she bought her own council home with 25% discount and then sold it for a 48% profit

Lady is top end hypocrite , and a poor politician, good gobby , decent drinking , lefty union rep , incredibly well funded by donors whose interests in her are what ??.

Names of her donor s:

21 January: £50,000 from Waheed Ali ??
22 January: £1,683.21 from GMB union
22 January: £47,227.58 from GMB union
26 January: £1,000 from Simeon Honore
30 January: £25,000 from GMB union
31 January: £10,000 from Rajesh Agrawal ??
4 February: £10,000 from USDAW
11 February: £25,000 from CWU union
25 February: £2,000 from Mohammed Imran??
4 March: £25,000 from Trevor Chinn
5 March: £10,000 from Intro Developments Ltd
5 March: £25,000 from Martin Taylor
12 March: £2,500 from Simeon Honore ?????????? have a look at him

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Angela Rayner is she in favour of protecting council homes

I think the bottom for most families - is they want a house they can call their own and not be forced out of it when the kids move out and mum and dad no longer need a 4 bed council house. Families also want the security of ownership - I believe anyway.

What we want is not always what we get

A lot of people simply cannot afford owning a home

So council housing was there to ensure they could have a low cost roof over their head

But the huge government funded discounts used by Thatcher made home ownership a very attractive thing .......which many people even with discounts couldn't afford

People say socialists are unrealistic living on borrowed money .....well the right to buy cost the country billions on the government bribes offered and billions on the council houses that were sold and never replaced

If an accountant came in and looked at the public money being spent to bribe people to buy homes and the money needed to replace the homes lost to sales and not replaced he would have told everyone to go and take some medicine and go and lie down

It doesn't matter that people WANTED to own their own homes .......I WANT to spend a weekend in bed with liz hurley .......but its a dream and never going to happen

Giving some people the chance to own their own home caused loads of problems for lots of other people by reducing the supply

It might have been okay if every home sold was replaced by a new one built with the money but it didn't happen

The conservatives tried to stimulate the right to buy again a few years ago with more lies about building a house every time one was sold but even the dopey public didn't believe their nonsense second time around

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Angela Rayner is she in favour of protecting council homes

"I think you probably need to pick a lane here" - cheers for the advice - but Im good thanks. Throughout this thread - I think - I tried to see it from all sides.
So if you want to know my opinion - Raynor is a classic case of Dunning–Kruger when it comes to politics (the Assembly is riddled with them). She is a hypocrite and did what she did because it suited her circumstances rather than her morals. She could make a tidy amount for doing nothing. Or in your eyes a conservative. So maybe Raynor should pick a swim lane - she is either red or blue - rather than cherry pick as it suits her agenda

So hold on, is right to buy good or bad?

Or are you more concerned with what one person did (who very conveniently happens to be a senior labour MP) rather than the policy and subsequent effects?

This all feels very pointless if you can't even bring yourself to offer an opinion on the policy, especially since everyone in this thread is engaging in good faith.