Brexit again - nothing to see here...

[JamesWales]

Re: Brexit again - nothing to see here...

If you're talking about how the EU made working class lives worse in the UK, why would it be notable that COVID hit after the UK left? It's the decades before that would be relevant.

Two different points there though. The one about COVID is that it entirely skews any political decisions, has made it very difficult to assess out outcomes yet. That goes for any govr elected in 2019,2020,2021 etc and certainly a big political and economic change that happened in Feb 2021 and was followed a few weeks later by a global pandemic.

The basic matrics comparing UK and the EU are very mixed. There is no clear picture when viewed holistically.

And, nope I don't think the EU is particularly good for working class Europeans. Not all bad by any stretch but could do so much better.

The irony is that itd a free market obsessed institution run by Conservatives for the many years and which we democratically chose to leave, overwhelmingly so in poorer communities. And yet still great swathes of the British left fawn over it and condemn anyone for wanting out.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Brexit again - nothing to see here...

Two different points there though. The one about COVID is that it entirely skews any political decisions, has made it very difficult to assess out outcomes yet. That goes for any govr elected in 2019,2020,2021 etc and certainly a big political and economic change that happened in Feb 2021 and was followed a few weeks later by a global pandemic.

The basic matrics comparing UK and the EU are very mixed. There is no clear picture when viewed holistically.

And, nope I don't think the EU is particularly good for working class Europeans. Not all bad by any stretch but could do so much better.

The irony is that itd a free market obsessed institution run by Conservatives for the many years and which we democratically chose to leave, overwhelmingly so in poorer communities. And yet still great swathes of the British left fawn over it and condemn anyone for wanting out.

Covid arrived in Europe in early 2020, not 2021.

Strange, but I don't remember the advertising from Leave saying "The basic matrics comparing UK and the EU will be very mixed. There will be no clear picture when viewed holistically." back in 2016, pre Referendum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC8qO1nyYoM&ab_channel=FactPointVideo

[Swiss Peter]

Re: Brexit again - nothing to see here...

Correct me if Im wrong but aren't you rich and live in the EU? Are you best placed to say?

Two weeks after we left the EU covid hit. Did that not impact things?

For the record, wages are, and have risen faster here than elsewhere. All knocked out by rising house prices of course bought upon by record immigration more than anything.

You're wrong. Weird post!

[Swiss Peter]

Re: Brexit again - nothing to see here...

Two different points there though. The one about COVID is that it entirely skews any political decisions, has made it very difficult to assess out outcomes yet. That goes for any govr elected in 2019,2020,2021 etc and certainly a big political and economic change that happened in Feb 2021 and was followed a few weeks later by a global pandemic.

The basic matrics comparing UK and the EU are very mixed. There is no clear picture when viewed holistically.

And, nope I don't think the EU is particularly good for working class Europeans. Not all bad by any stretch but could do so much better.

The irony is that itd a free market obsessed institution run by Conservatives for the many years and which we democratically chose to leave, overwhelmingly so in poorer communities. And yet still great swathes of the British left fawn over it and condemn anyone for wanting out.

...and having told me that I am in no position to judge the impact of the EU on working class lives here, you presume to know how the EU is for working class Europeans! Classic James :hehe:

[JamesWales]

Re: Brexit again - nothing to see here...

Covid arrived in Europe in early 2020, not 2021.

Strange, but I don't remember the advertising from Leave saying "The basic matrics comparing UK and the EU will be very mixed. There will be no clear picture when viewed holistically." back in 2016, pre Referendum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC8q...FactPointVideo

Yes, sorry that's a typo. Our first day outside of the EU was on 1st Feb 2020. Barely a few weeks later parts of Europe entered a lockdown. Within 6 weeks we were ourselves

[JamesWales]

Re: Brexit again - nothing to see here...

...and having told me that I am in no position to judge the impact of the EU on working class lives here, you presume to know how the EU is for working class Europeans! Classic James :hehe:

I didnt tell you, I asked. In my experience, when I look at the friends I have who are absolute anti-brexit die-hards, as opposed to those who voted against it but accepted the result with grace, nearly all have a financial interest at play. Usually a business or second home. They frequently abuse people who voted differently, on pretend moral grounds but there is usually money or personal motivation at play.

Hey, I am very very happy to look at all the stats. That exactly what I try to do. Not just look at selective ones to try to make a point.

Apologies if I mis-characterised your situation. Just borne from trying to understand why some people can't move on. 👍

[Swiss Peter]

Re: Brexit again - nothing to see here...

I didnt tell you, I asked. In my experience, when I look at the friends I have who are absolute anti-brexit die-hards, as opposed to those who voted against it but accepted the result with grace, nearly all have a financial interest at play. Usually a business or second home. They frequently abuse people who voted differently, on pretend moral grounds but there is usually money or personal motivation at play.

Hey, I am very very happy to look at all the stats. That exactly what I try to do. Not just look at selective ones to try to make a point.

Apologies if I mis-characterised your situation. Just borne from trying to understand why some people can't move on. 👍

I have said consistently that I am open to acknowledging and welcoming the benefits of Brexit as and when - and if - they manifest themselves (I live here, and it is not my interest or in the interest of my family and friends to do otherwise) In my mind, it is you James that is stuck in some sort of ideology/mindset that refuses to acknowledge the realities of how this is all unfolding. But - anyway, here we go again - we'll never agree.

(Oh, and for the record my holiday home in Europe is my sister's small 4th floor flat in an apartment block in Berlin with no lift, and I visit quite a lot. It's always interesting to talk to the locals, and can be a valuable education to set alongside what you can learn in books of statistics:thumbup:)

[JamesWales]

Re: Brexit again - nothing to see here...

I have said consistently that I am open to acknowledging and welcoming the benefits of Brexit as and when - and if - they manifest themselves (I live here, and it is not my interest or in the interest of my family and friends to do otherwise) In my mind, it is you James that is stuck in some sort of ideology/mindset that refuses to acknowledge the realities of how this is all unfolding. But - anyway, here we go again - we'll never agree.

(Oh, and for the record my holiday home in Europe is my sister's small 4th floor flat in an apartment block in Berlin with no lift, and I visit quite a lot. It's always interesting to talk to the locals, and can be a valuable education to set alongside what you can learn in books of statistics:thumbup:)

I don't think I'm blind to it. I think its largely irrelevant. As I always did. My issue is always with people spreading things I believe to be untrue claiming it to be a "disaster" etc when it plainly isn't. There are far greater issues at play.

That's great, as discussed I love Germany, although Berlin is one of the few cities I've never been to. No holiday home here, though my Nan had a place in the Costs Brava but that's long gone and my mum did live in Hannover, France and Spain. Alas, no more!

Absolutely! Speak to people! Qualitative data is critical too.

[stevo]

Re: Brexit again - nothing to see here...

I find it hard to believe that some people still think that Brexit was and is a good thing. For the record, I voted remain but accepted the result at the time and wanted us to move on as a country. But the facts speak for themselves.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Brexit again - nothing to see here...

Yes, sorry that's a typo. Our first day outside of the EU was on 1st Feb 2020. Barely a few weeks later parts of Europe entered a lockdown. Within 6 weeks we were ourselves

Nothing to say about those adverts I linked to? The one contrasting the NHS outside the EU with what is was like within it especially would be hilariously funny for how completely and utterly wrong it was if the subject matter was not so serious.

[az city]

Re: Brexit again - nothing to see here...

I don't think I'm blind to it. I think its largely irrelevant. As I always did. My issue is always with people spreading things I believe to be untrue claiming it to be a "disaster" etc when it plainly isn't. There are far greater issues at play.

That's great, as discussed I love Germany, although Berlin is one of the few cities I've never been to. No holiday home here, though my Nan had a place in the Costs Brava but that's long gone and my mum did live in Hannover, France and Spain. Alas, no more!

Absolutely! Speak to people! Qualitative data is critical too.

Jimbo

I see you have learned zero. Stop spouting one-eyed BS.

Brexit will be detrimental for the UK economy forever. The emerging trade data clearly show this. Any rational, honest economist would tell you this.

My usual question to you - what expertise do you have to comment on Economics? We both know it's none. But I'm sure that won't stop you.

[JamesWales]

Re: Brexit again - nothing to see here...

Jimbo

I see you have learned zero. Stop spouting one-eyed BS.

Brexit will be detrimental for the UK economy forever. The emerging trade data clearly show this. Any rational, honest economist would tell you this.

My usual question to you - what expertise do you have to comment on Economics? We both know it's none. But I'm sure that won't stop you.

I can read real data instead of spouting things from crystal balls like you.

I hope you got your money back for the last few crystal balls by the way?

I offered you a challenge before about who would more accurately predict forthcoming data. You didn't accept the challenge then. Had you done it, I would likely have been right, and a charity of your choice may have been a tenner richer. The offer is still there!

[JamesWales]

Re: Brexit again - nothing to see here...

Nothing to say about those adverts I linked to? The one contrasting the NHS outside the EU with what is was like within it especially would be hilariously funny for how completely and utterly wrong it was if the subject matter was not so serious.

I watched a little earlier.

Do I strike you as the kind of person particularly interested in political adverts? Party political broadcasts are my least favourite form of political communication. Interesting from a campaigning perspective perhaps but in terms of understanding things, almost entirely useless.

I don't endorse them. I think it was wrong to use the NHS too.

I also think it was entirely wrong of Britain Stronger in Europe to talk about a collapse in house prices, stock market crash or a bonfire of rights etc. I recall specifically an advert that had a piece of paper with things like 'maternity pay' ripped up on the table if we left the EU. Utter hogwash of course, as was the claim of a house price crash - pretty sinister given that's where most people's wealth lies.

I'm happy to criticise both sides. It was a dreadful campaign. Are you?

[az city]

Re: Brexit again - nothing to see here...

I can read real data instead of spouting things from crystal balls like you.

I hope you got your money back for the last few crystal balls by the way?

I offered you a challenge before about who would more accurately predict forthcoming data. You didn't accept the challenge then. Had you done it, I would likely have been right, and a charity of your choice may have been a tenner richer. The offer is still there!

Stick to town planning, you arrogant thicko.

[JamesWales]

Re: Brexit again - nothing to see here...

Stick to town planning, you arrogant thicko.

Being called arrogant from you?! Goodness me. It's like ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife.

More strange insults and no predictions again. Could do with your consistency down the City.

Always groundhog day today and the apocalypse tomorrow with you! 😉