Reply With QuoteOriginally Posted by goats
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God knows, football is ruined anyway….are Bournemouth bigger than sheff weds? The money show says yes, anyone with a brain says no
The worrying thing is when you look at ours in the eighties
Less than 2500 to watch us on countless occasions
Man City getting 21 k was poor by their standards but enormous by ours
Only in the history books in some cases
Blackpool , Blackburn , Huddersfield, Bolton , Preston even if relatively successful don't get the crowds they did
But clubs like Wednesday , Derby and Wolves will always have a loyal support and remain big clubs, even in the lower leagues
How far back into a clubs history is relevant? We won the FA Cup nearly 100 years ago, that surely means nothing now, same as forest winning the EC 40 years ago, what relevance has that got today for them to be "a big club"
surely theres got to be a cut off
We weren’t always that bad….looking at crowds regularly posted on the fb group. 7/8000 most of the time. I guess crowds might have just tripled over the years….
Forest won the EC , twice , in the television days
Huge exposure
Many of us can still remember those classic sides and forest stayed in the top flight for many many years and established themselves as a force
When we were hopping between the third and fourth our crowds were shocking
Only under Sam did we get decent gates
40 years ago being the important factor here? is that relevant today?
I’d say we are in the top twenty, simply based on the size and catchment area alone , similarly Bradford has to be in the same category even though they are not very successful.
Teams like Luton, Watford, Blackburn Burnley , Ipswich etc are second tier teams that when they do well they really do punch above their weight.
History tells us that the best team in Scotland were Queen’s Park at the turn of the last century but they are tiny now in comparison.
I think the aura of forest , Derby, Wednesday is still around even though its a long time since they did anything so I think the answer is yes, imo
Big clubs in the EPL is a more global thing I think. A big club there is one with a big global following.
Below the EPL you then look at; stadium size, season ticket holders, and historic acievements (doesn't necesarilly mean silverware but seasons in the top flight etc).
It's also relative isn't it. Are Bradford a big club? Probably not. Are they a big club for league 2 - almost certainly. Same for Derby, Bolton and Portsmouth in league 1 and Oldham in the Conference.
And Rick wright….we just needed a half decent owner, maybe we will get one one day hey
Yes we certainly had some thumping gates in the old fourth
Barnet , Shrewsbury , Burnley
I don't know where half of them came from
You gonna give us your top 20?
You can pick your criteria to justify your point of view in respect of this question.
For me, it's the pirates who wanted to breakaway a few years ago and the rest picking up the crumbs when they have a few decent years.
Sadly the only defining factor these days, in my opinion, is income.
Pompey have often been cited in this thread.
As they are my home-town team, I've been following their rise and fall for decades and it might be informative to examine why they seem to be gradually hauling themselves up the leagues.
After their nose-dive to League Two and being taken over by the fans, it became apparent that there was never going to be the money for a proper revival, they sold the club to a Disney executive. He's proved to be excellent - spending dosh improving an old stadium and not throwing huge money to acheive promotion. After about seven years of gradual progress they currently top league one. So that's the first plus point - a careful, enthusiastic owner.
Pompey have had a few managers during this time who have been reasonably backed but although being fairly successful and being given time, they now have a young manager who has turned the corner for them who none of you will have heard of. Second plus point.
The buzz words are STRATEGY = SUCCESS.
And behind it all is the fan base. Fratton Park is usually sold out with around 21,000 raucuous supporters willing their team to win.
Are Pompey a historically BIG club?
They've won the old First Division a few times and the FA cup. When I was a lad, they attracted crowds of 40K. But compared to say, Villa, who have won the European Cup, they are probably in the second tier of big clubs with Derby etc.
If you're interested, there's a recent excellent video interview with the owner which encapsulates his philosophy. Tan would do well to see it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_im...l=PortsmouthFC
Thanks for posting that link. Will give it a watch. Tan having some sort of 'vision' and communicating it would be wonderful. I feel like we're one of those businesses/clubs that are just fronts for something else. It's felt like that for a while.
So Pompey are deservedly Div One champions!
May I suggest that it would behove Tan and his Cardiff management team to examine why this pegasus has risen from the ashes.
The interview with the owner linked in my last post is illuminating.
There is also a new appraisal which encapsulates why the club has been successful (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68806890).
There were almost 20,000 at Fratton Park yesterday and there are ambitious plans to expand the old lady, Fratton Park, to maybe 35,000.
Please don't suggest that Vincent Tan should examine examples of a 'pegasus' risen from the ashes.
It will only confuse him more if he's looking for another (wrong) mythical beast! The worm is bad enough.
Portsmouth could easily support a bigger stadium
It's not just "portsmouth" where their fans come from , it's a big urban area down there as you know
Sludge. You know **** all about big clubs. Two years ago you assured everyone that West Ham were not a big club and that they would see a large drop off in fans the following year if they struggled, crowds were circa 55000 that season Turns out they struggled all season and didn’t avoid relegation by much. BUT. They home crowds went up to about 60000. Leathered again.
Actually Portsmouth and Cardiff are very similar with one whole side of the city bordered by sea.
(They both have hills to the north.)
Cardiff has its valleys and Portsmouth has its outlying council estates, many of which housed the 'dockies'.
The big difference in their histories is that Pompey has won significant honours.
So, playing devil's advocate here, if a bottom division side had 40k crowds every week but had never been close to the top flight in its history, that would be a big club, but a side that spent 20 years in the top division averaging 15k wouldn't be?
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