A stat that may surprise the Bulut fans

[Dembe]

Re: A stat that may surprise the Bulut fans

People that keep bringing up the form are missing the point, a mid table team will go on good and bad runs in a season. The people that are wanting a new manager, from what I can see, is because of the style of football.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: A stat that may surprise the Bulut fans

People that keep bringing up the form are missing the point, a mid table team will go on good and bad runs in a season. The people that are wanting a new manager, from what I can see, is because of the style of football.

Wow that's a big improvement then, we are now a mid table team, well done Bulut from a team that lost it's three best players and should have been relegated bar points deductions.

I think so, but with this set of players who could a more progressive team, I know a lot are Buluts signings, but during a transfer embargo where you can't really sign whoever you want.

He wanted better players in January but we couldn't afford them.

[Bald Barry Bastad]

Re: A stat that may surprise the Bulut fans

It's not the strikers it's the system. You could put Harland in this system and he would struggle to score goals.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: A stat that may surprise the Bulut fans

It's not the strikers it's the system. You could put Harland in this system and he would struggle to score goals.

Yes it's not easy now, was fine first 13 games were scoring two goals a game mostly, then we went all defensive, lets go somewhere in between.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: A stat that may surprise the Bulut fans

People that keep bringing up the form are missing the point, a mid table team will go on good and bad runs in a season. The people that are wanting a new manager, from what I can see, is because of the style of football.

For me, this season wasn't just about finishing higher than last season. I felt we underachieved last season partly due to some terrible managers, so finishing a bit higher up the table was to be expected.

I was as much interested in progression in playing style from last season. I haven't seen that. It's hard to argue that we've been better on the field this season. In fact, hadn't it been for our set pieces, we'd be in the bottom 3.

Now, either it's the players' fault again, we have a poor squad that can scrap its way to safety, or the players are better than their showing and their being held back. I believe it is the latter. Our ultra defensive approach is hardly resulting in clean sheets and wins.

Next season will be another build. A load of new players and probably a new manager again. That has to stop somewhere, but it can only stop once there is progress on the pitch.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: A stat that may surprise the Bulut fans

People that keep bringing up the form are missing the point, a mid table team will go on good and bad runs in a season. The people that are wanting a new manager, from what I can see, is because of the style of football.

Agreed, we should end up with an improvement of around fifteen points and ten places from last season and, in other circumstances, I wouldn’t be complaining at all about that, but you’d expect to see those improvements mirrored by an upturn in the quality of football played by the team along with, hopefully, a bit more entertainment. That’s not happened though in my opinion and it seems to me that the biggest single factor in our better results is that we are scoring from free kicks and corners again after taking last season off in that respect.

Bulut has been unlucky in being without our most creative player for more than half of the season, but I wonder how many games Ramsey would have played if he’d been fully fit from August to March? I’m not saying it would be like a repeat of the Colwill situation, but, having seen how this manager operates over the last seven months, I can well imagine Ramsey being dropped to the bench for plenty of away games (and home ones for that matter given the way we’ve often set up at Cardiff City Stadium). because of the need for us to stay “compact”.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: A stat that may surprise the Bulut fans

Agreed, we should end up with an improvement of around fifteen points and ten places from last season and, in other circumstances, I wouldn’t be complaining at all about that, but you’d expect to see those improvements mirrored by an upturn in the quality of football played by the team along with, hopefully, a bit more entertainment. That’s not happened though in my opinion and it seems to me that the biggest single factor in our better results is that we are scoring from free kicks and corners again after taking last season off in that respect.

Bulut has been unlucky in being without our most creative player for more than half of the season, but I wonder how many games Ramsey would have played if he’d been fully fit from August to March? I’m not saying it would be like a repeat of the Colwill situation, but, having seen how this manager operates over the last seven months, I can well imagine Ramsey being dropped to the bench for plenty of away games (and home ones for that matter given the way we’ve often set up at Cardiff City Stadium). because of the need for us to stay “compact”.

Thats the question, has he turned defensive because his attacking players weren't prolific enough so had to apply a safety-first approach, or is he just a defensive type coach that would have still done the same with Rambo and O'Dowda?

My main fear of change is will Dalman and Tan get anyone better, I doubt it and we will end up with a Harris or Morison, who are far worse and could take us down the divisions.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: A stat that may surprise the Bulut fans

Agreed, we should end up with an improvement of around fifteen points and ten places from last season and, in other circumstances, I wouldn’t be complaining at all about that, but you’d expect to see those improvements mirrored by an upturn in the quality of football played by the team along with, hopefully, a bit more entertainment. That’s not happened though in my opinion and it seems to me that the biggest single factor in our better results is that we are scoring from free kicks and corners again after taking last season off in that respect.

Bulut has been unlucky in being without our most creative player for more than half of the season, but I wonder how many games Ramsey would have played if he’d been fully fit from August to March? I’m not saying it would be like a repeat of the Colwill situation, but, having seen how this manager operates over the last seven months, I can well imagine Ramsey being dropped to the bench for plenty of away games (and home ones for that matter given the way we’ve often set up at Cardiff City Stadium). because of the need for us to stay “compact”.

If Tan wants to sell the club, he has a lot riding on which Manager is in place for next season, I think he will see Bulut as a safe pair of hands, surely he has learned from previous Managerial mistakes and will give Bulut one more season, if we are relegated he will lose a fortune.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: A stat that may surprise the Bulut fans

Thats the question, has he turned defensive because his attacking players weren't prolific enough so had to apply a safety-first approach, or is he just a defensive type coach that would have still done the same with Rambo and O'Dowda?

My main fear of change is will Dalman and Tan get anyone better, I doubt it and we will end up with a Harris or Morison, who are far worse and could take us down the divisions.

My attitude is that I don't see us getting back to the Premier League under this ownership - that might be harsh given that we have done it twice before under Tan and I suppose if we were to get a strong Warnock type figure again who would win his share of battles with the Board then it may happen, but I think we're less likely to see another manager like that any time soon.

I admit I've become very negative over Bulut since the turn of the year (since he had his strop after the Plymouth defeat really), but where you say he "turned defensive", I think he has always been, very, defensive. We brought in a striker, an attacking midfielder and a more attack minded left back in January and I've not seen any change in approach from City apart from about twenty five minutes against Ipswich - it was such a disappointment to see the attitude in the derby game which followed, the players were probably more to blame in this case because some of them looked intimidated by the occasion, but it was the same old, same old boring tactics from Bulut as well.

[llan bluebird]

Re: A stat that may surprise the Bulut fans

My attitude is that I don't see us getting back to the Premier League under this ownership - that might be harsh given that we have done it twice before under Tan and I suppose if we were to get a strong Warnock type figure again who would win his share of battles with the Board then it may happen, but I think we're less likely to see another manager like that any time soon.

I admit I've become very negative over Bulut since the turn of the year (since he had his strop after the Plymouth defeat really), but where you say he "turned defensive", I think he has always been, very, defensive. We brought in a striker, an attacking midfielder and a more attack minded left back in January and I've not seen any change in approach from City apart from about twenty five minutes against Ipswich - it was such a disappointment to see the attitude in the derby game which followed, the players were probably more to blame in this case because some of them looked intimidated by the occasion, but it was the same old, same old boring tactics from Bulut as well.

Except Ange at Spurs aren't they all defensive?

Pep defensive starves you of the ball with 100's of lateral passes, it easier in FIFA mide of unlimited financial restrictions
Liverpool under Klopp relies on keeping it tight and world-class wide forwards
Arsenal has a great set-play game and world-class wide forwards
Villa are a dour system based team as they don't have the money of the others

I think Bulut is of this generation of coaches/managers, led by analytics without any fresh ideas, and lets be honest that's all we are going to get with this lot, as I doubt we are scouring the world looking for someone who is doing things a bit different.

IMO there are catergotiries of head coaches nowadays

1- Lower-level screamers and shouters "c'mon boys lets ****ing 'ave them" (old school)
2- recently Badged up all doing the same drills, sessions and tactics (Bulut)
3- Experienced and found a nuance to the new coaches so exploits their groupthink (Bielsa,Warnock)
4- World class leaders that everyone copies ans subsequently gets taught to the fresh group 2's (Mourihno, Klopp, Pep, Anchelotti)

We are likely to end up with another group 1', so I live in hope that Bulut can get from 2>3

He doesn't know what to do with Colwill

[the other bob wilson]

Re: A stat that may surprise the Bulut fans

Except Ange at Spurs aren't they all defensive?

Pep defensive starves you of the ball with 100's of lateral passes, it easier in FIFA mide of unlimited financial restrictions
Liverpool under Klopp relies on keeping it tight and world-class wide forwards
Arsenal has a great set-play game and world-class wide forwards
Villa are a dour system based team as they don't have the money of the others

I think Bulut is of this generation of coaches/managers, led by analytics without any fresh ideas, and lets be honest that's all we are going to get with this lot, as I doubt we are scouring the world looking for someone who is doing things a bit different.

IMO there are catergotiries of head coaches nowadays

1- Lower-level screamers and shouters "c'mon boys lets ****ing 'ave them" (old school)
2- recently Badged up all doing the same drills, sessions and tactics (Bulut)
3- Experienced and found a nuance to the new coaches so exploits their groupthink (Bielsa,Warnock)
4- World class leaders that everyone copies ans subsequently gets taught to the fresh group 2's (Mourihno, Klopp, Pep, Anchelotti)

We are likely to end up with another group 1', so I live in hope that Bulut can get from 2>3

He doesn't know what to do with Colwill

My thinking on the subject is that brave players want the ball and brave teams look to dominate possession. I appreciate where you’re coming from as far as Pep’s team is concerned, lots of people think they’re boring, but I’ve always thought of them as an attacking team.

I can go all the way back to the 1967 European Cup Final between Celtic and Inter Milan, I was eleven and it was the first match I can remember where I gave tactics any thought. Celtic were like Ange’s Spurs side, but it was more Inter who interested me. They scored a penalty early and then stuck eleven men behind the ball and tried to hold out for eighty five minutes - they didn’t, and ended up deservedly losing 2-1. Inter’s approach was successful in terms of trophies won pre 1967, but I thought their negative approach cost them dear that day as a kid and I still do now.


Fifty seven years later, the thinking at Cardiff City under Erol Bulut is akin to Inter’s approach that afternoon against Celtic. It’s almost as if they want the opposition to have the ball and we play with an isolated, token, striker. In fact, Inter at least didn’t start defending until they had a lead, Cardiff under Bulut often start even home games looking as if a a goalless draw is the height of their ambitions.

The language around football changes, but the basics don’t really - counter attacking football is, essentially, defensive football and, for all the talk of transitions, teams are really just counter attacking like an away side from fifty and sixty years ago tended to do.

It seems to me that City under Bulut are set up to play counter attacking football as did Wales last Thursday, but the difference between the two teams was stark - Wales had the vibrancy and pace to make counter attacking football exciting, even though I view it as a cowardly philosophy at heart, City are, presumably, a team set up to counter attack, but they’re not very good at it and have ended up over reliant on set piece goals.

What Bulut has done is remind me that I’m a football fan, not someone working in the game who has a means justifies the end approach - back in the sixties, it was teams like Celtic and the Charlton, Law and Best Manchester United team which helped make me a football lover. However, there was also my love affair with Cardiff City to be borne in mind and for the last ten years or so, I’ve had trouble reconciling the two things - I love Cardiff City, but these days they don’t play the game which I fell in love with and I find Bulut’s football as uninspiring as Russell Slade’s.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: A stat that may surprise the Bulut fans

Most posters on here don't like DJ, Warnock or Malky, so no one's got a chance

[OurManFlint II]

Re: A stat that may surprise the Bulut fans

For me, this season wasn't just about finishing higher than last season. I felt we underachieved last season partly due to some terrible managers, so finishing a bit higher up the table was to be expected.

I was as much interested in progression in playing style from last season. I haven't seen that. It's hard to argue that we've been better on the field this season. In fact, hadn't it been for our set pieces, we'd be in the bottom 3.

Now, either it's the players' fault again, we have a poor squad that can scrap its way to safety, or the players are better than their showing and their being held back. I believe it is the latter. Our ultra defensive approach is hardly resulting in clean sheets and wins.

Next season will be another build. A load of new players and probably a new manager again. That has to stop somewhere, but it can only stop once there is progress on the pitch.

Turning your nose up at a corner, its the future baby!!

I work for one of the largest IT companies in the world, our AI generative "stuff" is world leading in many sports and helps elevate marginal gains into significant advantages, leading to years of domination.

Footballs top teams around the world use set plays, as its a single data point, thus can help with very specific advantages. Here is one of the best teams currently in the world working on corners (the horror, a set play advantage!!!)

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2024/03/how-liverpool-are-pioneering-artificial-intelligence-in-football-with-the-help-of-google/

Cardiff city are ahead of the curve.

[MOZZER2]

Re: A stat that may surprise the Bulut fans

Turning your nose up at a corner, its the future baby!!

I work for one of the largest IT companies in the world, our AI generative "stuff" is world leading in many sports and helps elevate marginal gains into significant advantages, leading to years of domination.

Footballs top teams around the world use set plays, as its a single data point, thus can help with very specific advantages. Here is one of the best teams currently in the world working on corners (the horror, a set play advantage!!!)

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2024/03/how-liverpool-are-pioneering-artificial-intelligence-in-football-with-the-help-of-google/

Cardiff city are ahead of the curve.

think your on the wrong board trying to explain modern techniques Flint !

thanks for the link very interesting the game is going to the next level that's for sure at elite level over the next few years

[the other bob wilson]

Re: A stat that may surprise the Bulut fans

The Millwall game, won by a single goal when a header from a corner somehow found its way into the net, was a modern day classic then?