Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport

[life on mars]

Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport

And the £9 each way clean air zone charge if your vehicle doesn’t comply. Bet Bristol Airport we’re ecstatic about that.

Proper socalist city

[goats]

Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport

Bristol Airport cannot expand any further apparently

Cardiff has one of the biggest runways in the UK and has plenty of room for expansion

So you’d think it might sort itself out one day under decent mgt? It’s not like Bristol airport is in a decent location either, no fast road to it, just a coach from Bristol city centre. It just needs a couple of decent cheap airlines like easy jet but I guess with their links to Bristol it’s not going to happen. A transatlantic route would be ideal save going east to fly west again, shorter flight, big runway. Just needs to right fare to negate going to Heathrow or Gatwick.

[llan bluebird]

Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport

This is where any linked-up thinking crumbles.

Scale baby, Scale. The fixed costs are amortised over fewer routes so the landing fee has to rise to cover the fixed costs. To reduce the landing fee's you need more flights, to get more flight you need to offer discounted rates to the airlines, at a loss to start. If you did decide to do that the airlines need to fill their planes. Geographically it knackered. Nothing south, few people live to the east of you, so its 20 miles north and west. West you have to travel through a bottleneck of biblical proportions and the alternative is non-existent public transport, which is an expensive train to Cardiff and a bus to the airport (same as most UK airports)

I remember Micheal O'Leary of Ryanair saying that CWL relied on the UK subsidy for keeping that very long runway in good condition as its the first transatlantic emergency landing strip

Its artificially been kept alive, it needed to move to severn junction region 20 years ago when that was first mooted

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport

So you’d think it might sort itself out one day under decent mgt? It’s not like Bristol airport is in a decent location either, no fast road to it, just a coach from Bristol city centre. It just needs a couple of decent cheap airlines like easy jet but I guess with their links to Bristol it’s not going to happen. A transatlantic route would be ideal save going east to fly west again, shorter flight, big runway. Just needs to right fare to negate going to Heathrow or Gatwick.

Ryanair approach CWA before Bristol, but CWA were asking for their standard landing fees even though Ryanair said they would be dwarfed by what the airport would make over the years on concessions etc. Bristol saw this and gave them a very decent deal - the rest is history.

In terms of runway facilities, access, weather, Cardiff is far better placed than Bristol - which was used in WW2 to train pilots in foggy conditions, because it gets so much fog/mist.

And numbers ? Bristol just had OK to up to 12m from 10m, and yes, more than 50% of those will travel from this side of the bridge..

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport

It's a shame it's a much nicer airport than Bristol, but has lost so much ground now I don't think it can ever catch up without some sort of UK grant.

Perhaps if Labour gets in, Gething can ask Starmer for a bit of help, I doubt it but maybe if they could build a big enough case for investment, Welsh Labour seems to prefer green measures over the economy, so he probably would prefer to close it down completely.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport

It's a shame it's a much nicer airport than Bristol, but has lost so much ground now I don't think it can ever catch up without some sort of UK grant.

Perhaps if Labour gets in, Gething can ask Starmer for a bit of help, I doubt it but maybe if they could build a big enough case for investment, Welsh Labour seems to prefer green measures over the economy, so he probably would prefer to close it down completely.

Just picking up on one point, are you suggesting that green issues only matter as long as the economy is ok? I, for one, get pissed off with the continual kicking of the can for the next generation to sort out. Other countries in the world, more affluent countries than ours seem to combine growth and green measures. Why not us?

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport

Just picking up on one point, are you suggesting that green issues only matter as long as the economy is ok? I, for one, get pissed off with the continual kicking of the can for the next generation to sort out. Other countries in the world, more affluent countries than ours seem to combine growth and green measures. Why not us?

I don't like the idea of Wales making changes losing competitiveness and lowering our standard of living to England, let the Scots do that.

If Welsh Labour want to be green global leaders make it MASSIVE in their manifesto, and see how that goes down with the Welsh public, if any of them can be arsed to read what they are voting for.

[life on mars]

Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport

Just picking up on one point, are you suggesting that green issues only matter as long as the economy is ok? I, for one, get pissed off with the continual kicking of the can for the next generation to sort out. Other countries in the world, more affluent countries than ours seem to combine growth and green measures. Why not us?

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/10/uks-green-economy-four-times-larger-than-manufacturing-sector-says-report

Banner headline like growth for green are fine however at last even Sir Keir knows that just a spend of 1% of our GDP cost approximately £26 billion ,we also know to build that growth on shore say like wind turbines , electric cars, solar power , Zero Emission Boiler , car batteries all of whcih needs manufacturing , manufacturing needs energy that ( now ) has to come form fossil, just for oil type groups fund Labour and around and around we go ,shall we go left or right or just u turn ..

I.d rip up the plan , dig our our fossil reserves , build up our own manufacturing base of for green future world products .

Will we nah , we offshore the manufacturing and hypocritically point the finger at cheap labour countries like India / China for polluting the world

USA go it right frack and dig for fossil , fix the current economy then go for an achievable reduction ,not follow some stupid Ed Miliband chest pounding net zero banner to just attract naive voters

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport

I don't like the idea of Wales making changes losing competitiveness and lowering our standard of living to England, let the Scots do that.

If Welsh Labour want to be green global leaders make it MASSIVE in their manifesto, and see how that goes down with the Welsh public, if any of them can be arsed to read what they are voting for.

Wouldn't make any difference. Green issues would strengthen the vote of younger people. It is the future, regardless of whether you, or other Tories, like it or not.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...or-says-report

Banner headline like growth for green are fine however at last even Sir Keir knows that just a spend of 1% of our GDP cost approximately £26 billion ,we also know to build that growth on shore say like wind turbines , electric cars, solar power , Zero Emission Boiler , car batteries all of whcih needs manufacturing , manufacturing needs energy that ( now ) has to come form fossil, just for oil type groups fund Labour and around and around we go ,shall we go left or right or just u turn ..

I.d rip up the plan , dig our our fossil reserves , build up our own manufacturing base of for green future world products .

Will we nah , we offshore the manufacturing and hypocritically point the finger at cheap labour countries like India / China for polluting the world

USA go it right frack and dig for fossil , fix the current economy then go for an achievable reduction ,not follow some stupid Ed Miliband chest pounding net zero banner to just attract naive voters

Thought you were in favour of Thatcher closing the mines?

[JamesWales]

Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport

Wouldn't make any difference. Green issues would strengthen the vote of younger people. It is the future, regardless of whether you, or other Tories, like it or not.

I'm not sure it is, unless the changes are managed well. Green parties generally struggling across Europe at the moment. The transition has to be socially sustainable to succeed, and I think a lot on the green-left, for that is what much of the green movement has morphed into, don't really get that.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport

I'm not sure it is, unless the changes are managed well. Green parties generally struggling across Europe at the moment. The transition has to be socially sustainable to succeed, and I think a lot on the green-left, for that is what much of the green movement has morphed into, don't really get that.

Exactly, it's money and opportunities they want, not green status and more poverty.

[Rjk]

Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport

[QUOTE=Mr Soul '68;5499783]

If it wasn't for the Welsh government the airport would have closed down years ago.

They had actually turned it around but then Covid hit at the worst possible time and had a huge impact on the market.

there's a big chicken and egg effect in that you need passenger numbers to bring costs down attract airlines and you need flights to raise passenger numbers. Better carriers and more significant infrastructure spending will only be viable once passenger numbers are significantly raised, so its basically back to square one to try to gradually get them back up again.

If Ryan Air and EasyJet had the same flight destinations going from Cardiff as they do Bristol, they would have literally millions more passengers using Cardiff Airport per year. Something has to be done about encouraging the budget airlines to fly to more destinations in Europe from our airport. I go to Lanzarote three times a year and occasionally Beziers. Every time I fly it means he hassle of flying from Bristol. It really grips my p*ss that I have to do that.

Ryanair and easyJet only operate out of Bristol not Cardiff because Bristol has so many more passengers, so costs are spread over a larger number of flights and they can offer cheaper flights.
if Cardiff became more cost effective than Bristol then they'd move at the drop of a hat, however I don't think that can just be achieved by lowering fees.
they need to grow the airport first to get a critical mass of passengers, then they will be able to entice these airlines back.
this is what they were doing before COVID struck.

[JamesWales]

Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport

Exactly, it's money and opportunities they want, not green status and more poverty.

I think it's both, and that's fair enough. The problem is that's basically impossible. People have been sold a lie and choices have to be made if they want radical green changes.

It's why so many environmental activists are the classic middle class types; they don't need to worry about housing affordability and the heating bills so much.