Reply With QuoteThank you very much.Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew
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Jewish settlers set their sights on Gaza beachfront
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68650815
Thank you very much.
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One small section of coastline, yet if Israel had the land originally deeded to them they would be at beaches in what are now no less than eight other countries with access to the Persian Gulf, the Red Sea, the Nile and the Black Sea.
Also given the fact that many Muslim Countries are rich in oil (for example 25% of the World’s Oil can be found in Iraq), then why is this untold wealth not being used to accommodate those in Palestine that are in such desperate conditions?
And let’s remember that those conditions have been unacceptable long before October 2023. Are these Muslims somehow NOT brothers and sisters in the same faith serving the same God, namely Allah?
Jabalia camp Gaza City. Destroyed by Israeli airstrikes. Where is your compassion? I'm not feeling it mate. You sound like a Zealot.
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I have already commented on the complexities and atrocities of the war and the part that both sides have played in it; the people of Palestine have been the victims in a mission carefully planned and exectuted by Hamas, who knew how Israel would respond and what that would mean for the everyday people of Palestine.
While the terrible suffering of families on both sides of the boarder is unacceptable and ultimately unnecessary, we are now discussing the response and the financial means to respond appropriately; particularly from those in the same worldwide spiritual camp.
You have already commented many, many times on your belief that Israel has some 'divine' right to occupy the whole of Palestine and many adjoining countries. You talk about a real estate deal with God signed off in the Bible. You endorse ethnic cleansing and have already commented that you think Israel has exercised remarkable restraint in the way it has cleansed non Jews from their (Arab) historic lands. You think an immigrant from New York City has more right to a Palestinian home on the West Bank than the Palestinians whose families have lived there for millennia.
You have done a bit of faux liberal hand wringing at tens of thousands of dead civilians, but have made clear that you are really a full on cheerleader for genocide and other war crimes by 'the Chosen People', and anyway it was Hamas who bombed the babies (by making Israel do it). Although you do regret the downside that Israel has disgusted most of the world with its actions - but on the upside, this will bring on the End Of Days when something significant in your fantasy world happens.
You are right of course that the conflict did not start on 7 October, and that the regimes around Israel/Palestine have done little to help the people of the occupied West Bank, the blockaded and now devastated Gaza Strip or the second class Arab citizens of Israel. Although as you know 'the same worldwide spiritual camp' tag does not apply to many of the people starved and murdered by the Israeli state. Some have no faith; others belong to a group called Christians!
Well said Jon.
Indeed, well said.
The fact that Truthpaste is happy to pin all the devastation in Gaza on Hamas alone just leaves me speechless. And he calls himself a Christian.
Can you tell us a little bit more about that?
As a Christian, he doesn’t seem like a Christian to be honest. Not a good spokesperson for my beliefs.
The term 'Christian' is one of the most abused terms in the english language; so I'm not sure what you are objecting to, but so we can cut through any denominational fog, and maybe we also have a very different poistion on eschatology, yet what do you think I have said which is unbiblical?
To reply to Jon's comments which go from the accurate to sweeping false statements then let me deal with them separately:-
You have already commented many, many times on your belief that Israel has some 'divine' right to occupy the whole of Palestine and many adjoining countries. You talk about a real estate deal with God signed off in the Bible.
Correct, and you won't share that view because you don't have any respect for God's Word.
You endorse ethnic cleansing and have already commented that you think Israel has exercised remarkable restraint in the way it has cleansed non Jews from their (Arab) historic lands.
A lie, as I have said that neither side is faultless and in fact Israel has a history all the way back to Abraham of both great and dreadful periods of history which is also true of the majority of nations.
Although you do regret the downside that Israel has disgusted most of the world with its actions - but on the upside, this will bring on the End Of Days when something significant in your fantasy world happens.
And then you contradict yourself by recalling that I did condemn Israel! But you were annoyed that this could potentially challenge your world view if it then links into the timetable that promised that Israel a return to the Land and the dozens of other 2,500 year old precise prophecies that have already come true.
You are right of course that the conflict did not start on 7 October, and that the regimes around Israel/Palestine have done little to help the people of the occupied West Bank, the blockaded and now devastated Gaza Strip or the second class Arab citizens of Israel. Although as you know 'the same worldwide spiritual camp' tag does not apply to many of the people starved and murdered by the Israeli state. Some have no faith; others belong to a group called Christians!
As with all contries there is a mix, however they are mainly Islamic and ruled by an Islamic power that they (or their parents) elected.
This explains it well with references at the bottom if you'd like to study it in more depth.
ISRAEL - THE PROMISE FROM GOD
Thanks for that. So, that all comes from the Old Testament. But the Jews then went on to reject Jesus as the son of God, which leads us to the New Testament, so why do you appear to care so much for Jews over Muslims?
How can you be promised any thing by someone who is not real?
Is it like easter eggs from the bunny,gifts from santa.
That's a very pertinent and quality question. The short answer is that every genuine Christian serves and worships a Man who was born a Jew and will return as the 'Lion of the Tribe of Judah'.
I promise you I will give you a proper and full answer to such a good question, but as I am taking my daughter to catch a plane at 5am tomorrow then I'd better sign off now and get back to you across this Easter weekend.
Have a good one
Not a lie at all. You made exactly the claim I said in a post last year. (Your response avoids the point).
It left me wondering about your Taliban-style Christianity and your fundamentalist (another thread, I know) Christian Zionism that puts you in lockstep with Israeli fascists and the racist far right of MAGA Republicans.
It was the chicken and egg question. Is your belief system a product of your politics, or do your political positions come from your belief system?
Either way it is indefensible.
It doesn't matter if all you do with what is in your head is shout at traffic lights. But you claim to be very active across a lot of social media peddling these views. Whilst some may be grateful for being battered over the head with biblical quotes, it is the real life consequences of what you preach that counts. At this time the consequences are mass murder (over 70% of the 40,000+ deaths are women and children), displacement, pain, starvation and terror.
Yeah, but it’s all Hamas’ fault, apparently
Jon, another excellent post with considered argument and demonstrating remarkable patience. I'm beginning to ask a few questions here though. I'd be interested in yours and others take on this. I'm not sure I possess the f*cking resolve patience or will to continue.
In the complex tapestry of global religious and political discussion, the challenge of engaging with individuals holding extreme, fundamentalist views, particularly those who justify violence through religious prophecies, is a futile one. Surely?
For me, this question becomes especially pertinent when discussing extremists who cite prophecies as justifications for genocide, ethnic cleansing, starvation, and other atrocities in the 21st century. It is essential to acknowledge that these positions starkly contrast with the fundamental teachings of Jesus, who preached love, compassion, and peace. Jesus, a Jew, taught principles that are diametrically opposed to any form of violence or hatred. Additionally, the ideology of Zionism, with its political and territorial ambitions, often rejects the New Testament, creating a further disconnect from the Christian messages of love and reconciliation.
But in the same way, there are, in some people's eyes, real and true Cardiff City supporters. It seems that in truthpaste's world, this applies to Christians too.
The dialogue with individuals holding such extremist beliefs presents a considerable challenge (under-f*cking-statement). On one hand, it is tempting to argue that reason and evidence-based dialogue can bridge divides and soften hardline stances. On the other hand, when beliefs are deeply entrenched and supported by a conviction in divine sanction, the scope for productive dialogue narrows significantly.
Referencing religious prophecy to justify severe human rights violations raises the question: are we witnessing not just a refusal to engage in meaningful discussion but potentially a form of trolling or even geopolitical destabilisation?
The use of such conflicts by extremists to further their narratives, irrespective of the human cost, points to a deep-seated fanaticism.
When engaging in discussions, surely it is crucial to distinguish between faith and the misuse of religious texts to support inhumane agendas. The endgame of dialogues with individuals who adopt fanatical religious beliefs to justify violence poses a significant challenge.
Doesn't this force us to consider whether certain forms of engagement, rather than fostering understanding, might inadvertently legitimise or embolden extremist viewpoints?
In summary. Are we wasting our f*cking time?
Sadly, yes. I think we are.
Nobody in this discussion has said that, so if you are going to weigh in then stick to the facts.Yeah, but it’s all Hamas’ fault, apparently
The main disconnection is you can (Jon-like) spout the bile re the texts, but you are not willing to examine any evidence for their validity or otherwise, so all we are left with is a drive-thru look at an issue and jumping to a quickest convenient and popular majority viewpoint whilst trashing anyone who thinks differently.
If you can't ask *questions to understand (which some actually now have) where other people are coming from, then you are not really engaging the discussion.
* For example I asked Jon to support his world-view and he's typed loads of words since I asked but is unable to address why he believes what he believes; so all he is left with is bile.
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