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Rubin was - but Joel could/should have been on the bench instead of Sawyers.Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
Remember Curbishley Charlton some fans didn't think he was good enough, look how that ended!
It does seem like an odd time when many fans now want to be entertained rather than win.
David Moyes gets stick from some of the odd negative West Ham fans?
No I'm not saying Bulut is like any of those other than, he's improved the position and outlook from last season and is still getting stick from a few.
Bang on .After Ipswich I would have been pleased for him to get a 2 year deal.
After Sunderland I would have been pleased to see him go.
But a manager who can get results like today after a dreadful failure must have something. 56 points is without doubt an improvement on last season for a manager with no previous experience of the Championship and who had a transfer embargo before January.
He's rather confusing. But I like him. I'm back in the 55% - 45% keep him this evening.
Unlike some posters on here I am able to change my mind. It's not a weakness.
I've repeated myself enough on this, but for me it's about progress.
Positives this season:
If a game is close, we often find a way to get a result. We're ok at coming back from behind, away from home at least. We're good at winning games late on. We have been good at scoring from set pieces.
Negatives this season:
Pointless passing. Less creativity than previous seasons. Worse defensive record. Slow starts to games. Often too negative.
Some stats:
Defeats by 2 or more goals:
2019/20: 5
2020/21: 4
2021/22: 8
2022/23: 9
2023/24: 11
Wins by 2 goals or more:
2019/20: 8
2020/21: 10
2021/22: 4
2022/23: 5
2023/24: 4
This season, for me at least, has rarely ever felt like one where we might be challenging for the playoffs. Finishing in the top 6 a season after finishing 21st is pretty rare in itself, so statistically I never really thought that was on in any case.
There's no doubt there's good spirit within the squad, they battle well for each other in tight games. That's no more evident than set pieces, where a number of those goals scored have been from second balls where we've shown a bit more hunger than the opposition in their own penalty area.
However, this season has felt quite attritional at times. That battling ability has been the reason we're in the top half, not our footballing ability. Yes, we've got some duds in our squad, not all Bulut's signings have been that good, but the defensive tactics haven't helped us at all. Trying to be more defensive has seen us lose more games convincingly than we've seen in recent seasons. We had a go at Coventry on Monday and got something from it. All too often we haven't had a go and surrendered quite meekly.
If what we saw at Coventry, and earlier in the season, is Bulut's blueprint for next season, I'd be happy for him to stay. If it's going to be the attritional battling and hoping for set pieces because we haven't got a clue what to do in the final third, then he can go.
I wouldn't bother wasting your time Eric. A good post that will get the usual response by the usual posters.
For me its simple, you get to the point in life where there are more important things to devote your time to and if the football isn't giving you something in return like entertainment, excitement, getting your off your seat then I don't see why I'd give up my time.
Years ago I didn't care how we won, I just wanted to see us climb up from league 2 and didn't care how we did it, after 2 pops at the PL I don't really care if we get there again, bonus if we do but I'd rather enjoy going to games.
My daughter came for a while it was lovely to share that with her, inevitably she got bored, I gave up 2 ST and we did other things on the weekend, we still do. I have convinced her to come Saturday but I am not hopeful of entertainment. We have been awful at home.
Given the choice what would you pick on a Saturday? A day with a loved one or a day wondering if you'll score or even reach over double figures in shots attempted watching Wintle a DM play in an attacking role as the ball moves around the grass at a snails pace. They hardly make an effort, why should I?
Pretty much agree with this re Bulut.
I can relate to a lot of that. 15 years ago getting to the Premier League seemed to be the most important thing, I wasn't really concerned how, but that we managed it, particularly when Swansea beat us to promotion. Both PL seasons were adventures, though I felt more connected with Warnock's PL side. I wouldn't say no to a return and I dare say if we did win promotion again I'd celebrate as wildly as before. I sense we'll be a mid table side for a number of seasons, nothing wrong with that. We'll finish mid table this season.
Now is the time to evaluate what is happening at the club. Let's make sure each age group are playing the same type of football. Our youngsters are comfortable in possession and with the ball at their feet, yet the game the first team plays is very different and doesn't offer easy transition. Take Swansea, their possession based game is stamped throughout the club and it's no surprise their youngsters slot into the first team more easily than ours.
Since lockdown particularly, my main reason for going to games is to meet up with friends. Only twice can I remember being wound up by a defeat (both Jacks games). 15 years ago defeats would sometimes send me into a rage. After the last few seasons it's just a shrug of the shoulders. I get more pleasure from a good performance than pinching a late win. Someone once suggested I've fallen out of love with the game, but that's not true. I rarely miss a second of any game, whether there or by stream or radio. How the club progresses is important. Maybe I've mellowed as I've got older and my interests in us have changed.
changing your mind is not a weakness. I've done the same with multiple players over the seasons....
Unlike some posters on here I am able to change my mind. It's not a weakness.
but flipping your opinion in a u-turn after each result? yea thats a weakness of yours in my eyes. Have some control over your outlook on things that span longer than 1 game/week
I was really enthusiastic about this season until we hit November.
Stupid connection I know, but as soon as the players started putting on gloves…they turned a bit shite.
Similar time to the Arsenal keeper getting time as well.
As far as Bulut goes…he has had his hands tied due to the transfer ban, has had some bad luck with injuries but has certainly not helped himself with being so rigid in formations and selections.
I would be inclined to give him another year and see what he can do in the next window.
Most of his signings have been decent I think.
I would love him to succeed but I don’t like his negative tactics and he is inconsistent in terms of what he says.
Some fans are complaining that he doesn’t select the youngsters.
I cannot understand how he prefers Ralls and Wintle to Turnbull after saying that he was desperate for players during the Transfer window.
Isn't it possible to play entertaining football and win? Are the two mutually exclusive?
Another question for you: were you a fan of Russell Slade?
The stats will be a bit odd as we have lost three quite good Championship clubs on their way back down and gained three Premier League clubs who are generally miles better than most of the rest bar Ipswich, who can sign players in January that we can't afford.
You can only complete the job with the tools at your disposal, 21st and saved on points deductions to 11th is a good achievement, especially when you consider he lost the most creative player, the best Striker we've had in a long time, and the best Centre half and had a transfer embargo.
Yes, and that's what we would all like, I think it takes a bit of time and a few transfer windows. He's done the first step, we are safe and are working hard as a team and grinding out some good results. I enjoyed the start of the season, we were more attacking and scoring more goals from open play and getting some good results, but we were also conceding too many, and then he lost the better creative players and tightened things up.
I would give one more season unless we could get someone better, but I don't trust our board with Manager appointments, and law of averages if they change it will probably backfire on us. So I don't love him, I think he's quite good and that we could do a lot worse.
Slade no not really, but I accepted he had a tough job and did the best he could, I thought the football was worse. It's different though because we'd had quite a good spell of football and then watching him felt much worse and boring, with Bulut we are better than last season and results have made a big improvement, although some games like Swansea and Sunderland have been dreadful and hard to watch.
Good post that was when it went wrong, that keeper did cost us a lot of points, in the first game I thought he looked OK at times, but he just got worse every game.
People argue that Bulut is defensive-minded, but in truth he's inherited, and brought in defensive, slower players. The Wintle/Ralls thing with new contracts implies more of the same next year, unless of course he's going to add a couple of pacy, energetic midfielders and a couple of strikers who aren't exclusively 'target' men. I'm still undecided on him, but what will sway it for me is the players he brings in this summer - if he stays..
I believe Ipswich away was the first game for Runnerson (spelling), should have been his last !!!!
We were coasting 0-2 until he got involved
Admittedly the keeper was crap but City surrendered at Ipswich with Buluts tactics.
That said, you could see a lot of progress and City on parts looked like they could play football. One goal in particular was particularly easy on the eye.
The stats aren't odd due to the sides that have come down. They're odd in that we've only drawn 5 games this season. 8 is the lowest number of draws we've ever managed in a 46 game season and I fully expect that to be beaten this season, so we either win games or lose them.
We've won 17 games this season, 13 by a single goal. Our last 10 victories have been by 1 goal which, may not be the longest run of single-goal wins in our history, but it is the joint longest run in the same season since Richie Morgan was boss in 1981.
7 of our first 9 defeats this season were by a solitary goal, including narrow, perhaps unlucky defeats early on to Leicester and Ipswich. We, of course, drew at Leeds. Our last 9 league defeats have all been by at least 2 goals (10 if you include the cup tie at Hillsborough). To put that into context, our worst run of defeats at this by 2 or more goals game in 1957/58 when we lost 14 games all by more than one goal, so this is our second worst run in that regard in our history.
Since the win at Preston, when we were 7th top scorers in the division, we've scored 18 goals, one of the lowest across all 4 divisions and one of the lowest amounts over 23 games in our history.
I know you don't care in the slightest, but we've had half a season where our form has generally been poor. The amount of good performances could be counted on one hand. As I've said previously, our wins have generally been far more about grit and desire than footballing ability. There are stats I find concerning, that suggests that, over the season, we've got worse not better. I find it alarming that we've been relatively easy to beat, but then there are the odd game where we find something, often late on, to turn things around. Grit and determination will get you so far, I can't question ours this season, but if we're going to progress, we need more than that. We've shown we can play some decent football at times. We're in transition. We're not going up any time soon. Let's try and show more attacking intent. We did on Monday and look what it got us.
Yes if there are three really good teams in the league teams may lose by more than one goal that's common sense?
Anyway a wins a win, a draw is a draw and a loss is a loss, an open play goal is a goal and a dead ball goal is a goal
We were 21st we are now 11th, which is 10 places higher in a much tougher leagues than last year
Here's something to consider. Bulut actually does have a system of play, whether people love it or hate it or are indifferent is obviously down to preference, but for the first time since Malky? we have a manager who actually knows how he wants his team to play, where players should be, and a huge emphasis on what players do off the ball. Personally, i'm not a fan, when it's bad, it's really bad, and when it's good it's pretty bad as well! But, here's the question-I believe that at championship level Bulut's tactics could actually bring some success, even without the entertainment. Can't be arsed going into what he is actually attempting to do, we can all pretty much see what is happening. Although with the 'right' kind of player who can carry of Bulut's tactics rigidly, then i think that it could work in terms of getting to the play offs. Organised, disciplined, work rate, getting behind the ball etc is the order of the day, wide men are key. Would anyone on here accept this type of football if it brought relative success, gave us an identity, added with players who can play this way, therefore a more refined style although with the same type of performance? I think that i probably would.
Clearly everything is rosy to you, no concerns, regardless of what others say. I'm wasting my breath.Yes if there are three really good teams in the league teams may lose by more than one goal that's common sense?
Anyway a wins a win, a draw is a draw and a loss is a loss, an open play goal is a goal and a dead ball goal is a goal
We were 21st we are now 11th, which is 10 places higher in a much tougher leagues than last year
[QUOTE=Eric the Half a Bee;5501632]The stats aren't odd due to the sides that have come down. They're odd in that we've only drawn 5 games this season. 8 is the lowest number of draws we've ever managed in a 46 game season and I fully expect that to be beaten this season, so we either win games or lose them.
Talking of draws in a season, the most we ever had in one single season was 23 out of 46 games, I believe? This was back in season 96/97 when we finished 3rd from the bottom of the old Division 4. Please correct me if I am wrong. However, I can honestly say, this has been for me anyway, the most boring season football wise since then!
I am still undecided if Bulut should be here next season! With the addition of several decent players during the summer, including someone to actually hit the back of the net regularly, I believe Bulut can take us up another two or three places to where we end up this season. However, do I want to watch Boring, Boring, Backwards, Bulut Ball for season 24/25?
I couldn't disagree more. If Bulut persists with the sort of negative, tedious rubbish he and his players have been serving up for most of this season, I firmly believe the chances of achieving any sort of genuine success in the Championship are absolute zero - unless, of course, you consider avoiding relegation to be successful.
Anyway, I think I'm going to take a brief break from this board until the season is over because I'm becoming almost as bored with talking about this guy as I am with watching his team play. There will be plenty to say when the season is done and dusted, and when we know for sure whether or not Bulut is going to get a new contract, but for now I think I'll leave it there.
yep 100%
I know what you mean it is getting boring, there is not long to wait. let's wait, see what Tan and Dalman think, and take it from there. Bulut has a six-game month to impress hopefully with Ramsey and O'Dowda can they improve the performances?
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