Sala case

[TheBirchgrovePub]

As I understand it the claims before the court are that:
1. Within the context of French employment law Emiliano was still their employee at his time of death as the documents terminating his employment had not been lodged (or had been improperly lodged).
2. Given he was still their employee they owed him a duty of care that they neglected through their arrangements with a connected party to Nantes, i.e. the player agency involved and it's employee/representative who arranged an "illegal" flight.
3. As a result of Nantes negligence Cardiff City suffered financial losses, namely the transfer fee and related costs and the potential earnings from avoiding relegation from the Premier League.

Thanks. Makes me a bit uneasy if I’m honest that we are trying to exploit a loophole of whether his registration was properly completed. Especially as pinning our hopes on Nantes using a dodgy agent that we freely used ourselves at that time.

Mainly just feel for the family as this continues to drag on.

David

[JumpersforGoalposts]

Thanks. Makes me a bit uneasy if I’m honest that we are trying to exploit a loophole of whether his registration was properly completed. Especially as pinning our hopes on Nantes using a dodgy agent that we freely used ourselves at that time.

Mainly just feel for the family as this continues to drag on.

David

I understand your view but this isn't about footballer registration, it's French employment law and the potential consequences of failing to exercise a proper duty of care to an employee.
When we finally get to a judgement the Sala family lawyers will likely take their own action if the court takes the view that he was still Nantes' employee and they were negligent in their dealings with him, even if the financial end of Cardiff City's claim fails.

[B. Oddie]

I feel very ashamed of the club.

[goats]

I feel very ashamed of Vincent Tan .

Corrected it for you….are you really surprised at anything he does?

[TWGL1]

I feel very ashamed of the club.

I would imagine any other club in the same circumstances would do exactly the same thing as Tan is currently doing, regardless of the ethical considerations.

Can you think of any club that wouldn’t , apart from Swansea City of course. They would be too preoccupied taking legal action against their former manager.

[dml1954]

Why are we continuing to drag this on? It’s embarrassing and crass. He was our player. What am I missing?

After all this time and with all the publicity surrounding the case it is amazing that someone can still be so ill informed. You have totally missed the point that Nantes and their (illegal ?) agent are alleged to have arranged the flight. It doesn't matter who Sala belonged to at the time of his death, if that fact is held to be true then Nantes were negligent and liable for City’s losses. Using this case to continually have a go at battering the club is ridiculous.

[dml1954]

I understand your view but this isn't about footballer registration, it's French employment law and the potential consequences of failing to exercise a proper duty of care to an employee.
When we finally get to a judgement the Sala family lawyers will likely take their own action if the court takes the view that he was still Nantes' employee and they were negligent in their dealings with him, even if the financial end of Cardiff City's claim fails.

It has already been established in a separate case that Sala was City’s player at the time of his death. That is irrelevant in what is going on now. If Nantes and Mckay are found to have arranged the flight (which was illegal) and bearing in mind McKay was not a licensed agent in France at the time, then they were negligent and would be liable for City’s losses.

[dml1954]

If I owned a business and someone I employed for a specific purpose completed his job then at a later date he separately organised a doomed flight for an ex-employee then I wouldn’t expect to be liable for anything no?

It is ludicrous what we are doing and absolutely shameful. Nantes have acted poorly as well in their actions in terms of not contributing to the trust fund and chasing money immediately, but that is completely unrelated to what we are going after them for and not at all relevant.

When the dust settles on this, people will look back embarrassed at the stance they took on this.

What is shameful is you continually quoting ‘facts’ that you have no idea whether they are true and using it to batter the club. If you bought an expensive car and paid for it in advance and then the garage arranged an unlicensed/illegal contractor to take it to you but it fell off the delivery lorry and was written off, you would sue the living daylights out of everybody you could to get your money back plus damages, loss of income, compensation and anything else your lawyer thought you could get. And yet, you expect us to believe that you would just shrug and say ‘cest la vie’ ? Nonsense.

[light up the darkness]

I can see Cardiff winning the case to some extent, but I can't see £100M being awarded on "What might have happened".
There is no guarantee that we would have stayed up with Sala - he might have got injured first game

The club have employed expert witness that states we would have had a 52-56% chance of staying up.iirc

The 100 million claim is probably an opportunity for Nantes to settle.

Either way Nantes are in trouble with the FFA

[light up the darkness]

We have not heard yet about the role that Warnock played in terms of pushing through this transfer and his dealings with the illegal agents.

It could be that UEFA go after him for conspiracy

Anyway. Nantes have until September to respond

[Enoch Mort]

We have not heard yet about the role that Warnock played in terms of pushing through this transfer and his dealings with the illegal agents.

It could be that UEFA go after him for conspiracy

Anyway. Nantes have until September to respond

If members of the McKay family have had to surrender Cardiff City related emails and correspondence as a result of the court action taken by the Club it may well reveal issues other than McKay links to Nantes which was the main purpose of the exercise

[Nobody's Rep]

If members of the McKay family have had to surrender Cardiff City related emails and correspondence as a result of the court action taken by the Club it may well reveal issues other than McKay links to Nantes which was the main purpose of the exercise

The key point for me is they "have had to" - their statements imply they have cooperated - if so why has it taken court appearances to achieve this - all is of this stinks to high heaven and no one comes out with any grace and yet two people lost their lives but their memories get trampled on every single day - 5 years now and still no end in sight for them

[TheBirchgrovePub]

What is shameful is you continually quoting ‘facts’ that you have no idea whether they are true and using it to batter the club. If you bought an expensive car and paid for it in advance and then the garage arranged an unlicensed/illegal contractor to take it to you but it fell off the delivery lorry and was written off, you would sue the living daylights out of everybody you could to get your money back plus damages, loss of income, compensation and anything else your lawyer thought you could get. And yet, you expect us to believe that you would just shrug and say ‘cest la vie’ ? Nonsense.

What are you on about?

You’re defending a club trying to use a loophole to get out of paying for a player after a tragic accident because you happen to support that club.

He wasn’t Nantes player. It is irrelevant that they employed McKay and McKay then arranged the flight. He was an ex-employee of Nantes and the fact they employed McKay has zero relevance.

Comparing Sala to the delivery of a car, what a crass post. Also a completely wrong analogy. Take a look at yourself you embarrassment

[pomeroy]

What are you on about?

You’re defending a club trying to use a loophole to get out of paying for a player after a tragic accident because you happen to support that club.

He wasn’t Nantes player. It is irrelevant that they employed McKay and McKay then arranged the flight. He was an ex-employee of Nantes and the fact they employed McKay has zero relevance.

Comparing Sala to the delivery of a car, what a crass post. Also a completely wrong analogy. Take a look at yourself you embarrassment

You seem to miss the point completely. Cardiff City have already paid for the player and donated a significant sum to the Sala Trust Fund which significantly F C Nantes and the PFA declined to do so. The case revolves around whether Nantes in their dealings with Cardiff re. the Sala transfer employed an unlicenced agent which would be illegal in French law and materially determine the legitimacy of the transfer. Cardiff City are pursuing what their lawyers consider natural justice as they believe the club has been wronged and in that case want compensation for losses incurred. It is no different from me suing a dodgy Gumtree seller that has not delivered to me the goods I paid for.
I think you need to spend more time outside than inside the Birch!!

[TheBirchgrovePub]

You seem to miss the point completely. Cardiff City have already paid for the player and donated a significant sum to the Sala Trust Fund which significantly F C Nantes and the PFA declined to do so. The case revolves around whether Nantes in their dealings with Cardiff re. the Sala transfer employed an unlicenced agent which would be illegal in French law and materially determine the legitimacy of the transfer. Cardiff City are pursuing what their lawyers consider natural justice as they believe the club has been wronged and in that case want compensation for losses incurred. It is no different from me suing a dodgy Gumtree seller that has not delivered to me the goods I paid for.
I think you need to spend more time outside than inside the Birch!!

We were happy to deal with McKay and sign his two sons around that time, it is laughable that we are pursuing this like a dog with a bone on the back of that.

Your analogy is not only crass but also incorrect. We signed the player, he was ours. He was “delivered”. The fact he chose to go back to Nantes to collect some belongings does not mean Nantes are suddenly responsible for the subsequent accident due to Sala accepting a less than glamorous private flight from someone who had acted for their club.

Thanks for your concern but I have not touched alcohol in a number of years.

[TheBirchgrovePub]

Going to step away from this thread now, depressing to see it get to a point where people compare a young man passing away in the worst way possible to a car damaged in transit.

David

[Vindec]

This thread was going off on a tangent until dml1954 corrected the whole point of this case. Clearly it took the Court cases against McKay to get the relevant proof that he was acting for Nantes who paid and arranged for the dodgy flight. Of course had the tragedy not happened nothing more would have been said but in the circumstances the club has a point and were right to pursue the matter.

[G rangetown Blue]

I feel very ashamed of the club.

Why? Kita and the agent are the ones who should be “ashamed”. This has nothing to do with fans of Cardiff and Nantes, just the 2 owners, one of whom is facing jail.

[G rangetown Blue]

We were happy to deal with McKay and sign his two sons around that time, it is laughable that we are pursuing this like a dog with a bone on the back of that.

Your analogy is not only crass but also incorrect. We signed the player, he was ours. He was “delivered”. The fact he chose to go back to Nantes to collect some belongings does not mean Nantes are suddenly responsible for the subsequent accident due to Sala accepting a less than glamorous private flight from someone who had acted for their club.

Thanks for your concern but I have not touched alcohol in a number of years.

FC Nantes are not responsible for anything, their dodgy owner is…he is despised in Nantes

[North Cardiff Blue]

I would imagine any other club in the same circumstances would do exactly the same thing as Tan is currently doing, regardless of the ethical considerations.

Can you think of any club that wouldn’t , apart from Swansea City of course. They would be too preoccupied taking legal action against their former manager.

Of course, they would and so would all the people saying it's not right if it was their money lost due to no fault of their own.

[North Cardiff Blue]

It has already been established in a separate case that Sala was City’s player at the time of his death. That is irrelevant in what is going on now. If Nantes and Mckay are found to have arranged the flight (which was illegal) and bearing in mind McKay was not a licensed agent in France at the time, then they were negligent and would be liable for City’s losses.

And if so partly responsible.

[North Cardiff Blue]

What is shameful is you continually quoting ‘facts’ that you have no idea whether they are true and using it to batter the club. If you bought an expensive car and paid for it in advance and then the garage arranged an unlicensed/illegal contractor to take it to you but it fell off the delivery lorry and was written off, you would sue the living daylights out of everybody you could to get your money back plus damages, loss of income, compensation and anything else your lawyer thought you could get. And yet, you expect us to believe that you would just shrug and say ‘cest la vie’ ? Nonsense.

Of course, he would, he'd be going mental if people were saying let it go don't worry about it why are you making a fuss, you're making me ashamed.

[North Cardiff Blue]

The club have employed expert witness that states we would have had a 52-56% chance of staying up.iirc

The 100 million claim is probably an opportunity for Nantes to settle.

Either way Nantes are in trouble with the FFA

Not a great expert either I would say 97.576% it affected Warnock too, we would have stayed up easy.

[North Cardiff Blue]

We have not heard yet about the role that Warnock played in terms of pushing through this transfer and his dealings with the illegal agents.

It could be that UEFA go after him for conspiracy

Anyway. Nantes have until September to respond

Nothing to do with him, he's just a Manager who recommends players to the board.

[North Cardiff Blue]

You seem to miss the point completely. Cardiff City have already paid for the player and donated a significant sum to the Sala Trust Fund which significantly F C Nantes and the PFA declined to do so. The case revolves around whether Nantes in their dealings with Cardiff re. the Sala transfer employed an unlicenced agent which would be illegal in French law and materially determine the legitimacy of the transfer. Cardiff City are pursuing what their lawyers consider natural justice as they believe the club has been wronged and in that case want compensation for losses incurred. It is no different from me suing a dodgy Gumtree seller that has not delivered to me the goods I paid for.
I think you need to spend more time outside than inside the Birch!!

he's a WUM not a great one either!