40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

[truthpaste]

No, I was thinking of things that occurred well before October7.

Well before October 2023 eh. Well don't go too far back because no Arabs would have any right to land in numerous areas, including Gaza if you examine history in detail.
In that respect, Israel currently occupies less than 10% of the Land they were given in writing. I've no doubt that you will give no recognition to God's Word as the majority assume (and hope) it is nothing more than a myth, so on this we would need to agree to disagree; but in the meantime it remains very interesting to see how individuals hold Israel to a whole set of standards they quickly jettison when it comes to any group that have vowed for decades to slaughter all Jews they can get their hands on.

[jon1959]

Well before October 2023 eh. Well don't go too far back because no Arabs would have any right to land in numerous areas, including Gaza if you examine history in detail.
In that respect, Israel currently occupies less than 10% of the Land they were given in writing. I've no doubt that you will give no recognition to God's Word as the majority assume (and hope) it is nothing more than a myth, so on this we would need to agree to disagree; but in the meantime it remains very interesting to see how individuals hold Israel to a whole set of standards they quickly jettison when it comes to any group that have vowed for decades to slaughter all Jews they can get their hands on.

I don't know who you are talking about with that last bit, but my view is that Israel and the Palestinian paramilitary groups should all be held to the same standard - compliance with international law - even though one party is a state and the others are from a stateless people (states have specific legal responsibilities).

Hamas and Islamic Jihad have not met that standard and committed war crimes and atrocities on and after 7 October. Israel has not met that standard and has committed war crimes and atrocities every day since 7 October and consistently since the formation of the state in 1948.

The inconsistency comes from the USA, Germany, the UK and most other western states (with some exceptions) who all hold Israel to a much lower standard than the Palestinians. The states and their representatives who provide arms, money and diplomatic cover to prevent any consequence for 75 years of breaking international law. Other states that do that get sanctioned; Israel gets rewarded.

And for me there is no 'hope' that your supernatural beliefs are nonsense - no 'hope' needed - just disgust that they lead you and those that share your views ('the Land they were given in writing') into cheerleading ethnic cleansing!

[jeepster]

I don't know who you are talking about with that last bit, but my view is that Israel and the Palestinian paramilitary groups should all be held to the same standard - compliance with international law - even though one party is a state and the others are from a stateless people (states have specific legal responsibilities).

Hamas and Islamic Jihad have not met that standard and committed war crimes and atrocities on and after 7 October. Israel has not met that standard and has committed war crimes and atrocities every day since 7 October and consistently since the formation of the state in 1948.

The inconsistency comes from the USA, Germany, the UK and most other western states (with some exceptions) who all hold Israel to a much lower standard than the Palestinians. The states and their representatives who provide arms, money and diplomatic cover to prevent any consequence for 75 years of breaking international law. Other states that do that get sanctioned; Israel gets rewarded.

And for me there is no 'hope' that your supernatural beliefs are nonsense - no 'hope' needed - just disgust that they lead you and those that share your views ('the Land they were given in writing') into cheerleading ethnic cleansing!

Well that is the facts and truth Jon,be careful the talking snake dont come for you.

[stevo]

Truhpaste, I hope you’re not referring to me either because I’ve called out both Israel and Hamas for their actions in this thread. I would also call out any Islamic state that practices Sharia law, for the oppression of women and punishment by death of LGBT communities. The latter ironically is probably something you think is fair game because it’s not God’s way. I still remember the discussions we had on that subject on this very board many years ago. You made your position on that very clear.

I do not favour one religion over any other. I’m just against the killing and mistreatment of innocent civilians, whoever does it.

[truthpaste]

Truhpaste, I hope you’re not referring to me either because I’ve called out both Israel and Hamas for their actions in this thread. I would also call out any Islamic state that practices Sharia law, for the oppression of women and punishment by death of LGBT communities. The latter ironically is probably something you think is fair game because it’s not God’s way. I still remember the discussions we had on that subject on this very board many years ago. You made your position on that very clear.

I do not favour one religion over any other. I’m just against the killing and mistreatment of innocent civilians, whoever does it.

1. I did include a quote above my comment.
2. And for the sake of further clarity, while I adhere to God's view of family life, I have never suggested that those who go their own way should be exterminated. All of us in one way or another flout God's Law, which is why we are all in need of a Saviour; some accept Him, others simply add him to their gutter level language.
3. On religion I oppose them all, as they only cause confusion and at their worst death. Jesus was (as planned thousands of years before) murdered because of the religious people in Jerusalem.

[stevo]

So, you’re not religious?

[the other bob wilson]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68961753

[truthpaste]

So, you’re not religious?

While I say an actual relationship with God is crucial for each individual, I would also warn that religion is the main reason most people never find that living relationship with God. This isn't easy to explain in text, but here's a first attempt.

In the same way americans think you can run holding in football, the word - 'religion' - is viewed by our mainly secular society as anyone who excercises any form of faith in any form of greater being or someone who performs rituals or practices of any kind.

In the middle of such 'fog' - we end up eagerly looking for the irrational examples found in the mix and end up throwing out religion and all other faith as irrelevant. In fact all religion is hopeless as far as Almighty God is concerned, and only invented to stop us seeing what we really need - the Bible calls them 'cunningly devised fables'.
Or to put it another way, flood the world with fake Rolex watches, say they are the real thing and eventually people (let down by their performance) assume all Rolex watches, even the real ones, are unreliable.

Religion is ultimately dead and is something that can only be observed on the outside, whereas faith in Christ happens on the inside and will always manifest itself on the outside in every aspect of someone's life; in their speech, their priorities, their ambitions and their key reason for living. Someone put it like this, if you hired a detective to follow me for 7 days, they should collect enough information to convict me of being a Christian!

Hoping that starts to answer your question, I'm very happy to explain any of the above in more detail or answer any new questions you may have. And thanks for asking such an important question.

[stevo]

It’s okay. I think I get where you’re coming from. And thank you for taking the time to explain. It’s an interesting viewpoint. But it also comes across as saying you don’t want to be associated with all those other deluded religious people, because yours is the correct path and all the others are wrong. This is essentially why I don’t believe.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

We don't like the press

Let's ban them

Al Jazerha

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

While I say an actual relationship with God is crucial for each individual, I would also warn that religion is the main reason most people never find that living relationship with God. This isn't easy to explain in text, but here's a first attempt.

In the same way americans think you can run holding in football, the word - 'religion' - is viewed by our mainly secular society as anyone who excercises any form of faith in any form of greater being or someone who performs rituals or practices of any kind.

In the middle of such 'fog' - we end up eagerly looking for the irrational examples found in the mix and end up throwing out religion and all other faith as irrelevant. In fact all religion is hopeless as far as Almighty God is concerned, and only invented to stop us seeing what we really need - the Bible calls them 'cunningly devised fables'.
Or to put it another way, flood the world with fake Rolex watches, say they are the real thing and eventually people (let down by their performance) assume all Rolex watches, even the real ones, are unreliable.

Religion is ultimately dead and is something that can only be observed on the outside, whereas faith in Christ happens on the inside and will always manifest itself on the outside in every aspect of someone's life; in their speech, their priorities, their ambitions and their key reason for living. Someone put it like this, if you hired a detective to follow me for 7 days, they should collect enough information to convict me of being a Christian!

Hoping that starts to answer your question, I'm very happy to explain any of the above in more detail or answer any new questions you may have. And thanks for asking such an important question.

I make the conclusion that you believe in a myth

If that makes you a Christian........or insert plenty of other ways of believing ......then that's up to you

[Gofer Blue]

1. I did include a quote above my comment.
2. And for the sake of further clarity, while I adhere to God's view of family life, I have never suggested that those who go their own way should be exterminated. All of us in one way or another flout God's Law, which is why we are all in need of a Saviour; some accept Him, others simply add him to their gutter level language.
3. On religion I oppose them all, as they only cause confusion and at their worst death. Jesus was (as planned thousands of years before) murdered because of the religious people in Jerusalem.

P.S. Sorry to hi-jack the thread but as the conversation (inevitably it seems!) has recently turned to "religion" I see that Russell Brand has recently been baptised and declares that he is now a Christian. Like Michael Coren says* (https://inews.co.uk/opinion/russell-...aptism-3032293) I look forward to seeing the change in him. "By their fruits you shall know them". To quote the vernacular: the proof of the pudding is in the eating!

I wonder what other posters make of this?

* Quote from the Coren article: One of the delights of my priestly life is when I’m asked to perform a baptism. Sometimes it will be babies held by their parents, but often it’s mature people who have come to know Jesus Christ, and long for this sacramental bonding into God’s family. I welcome every one of them.

I have the same attitude towards Russell Brand, who has just announced to his millions of online followers that on Sunday he was baptised. He said that he felt “incredibly blessed” and that he was “nourished” by it all. I’m delighted for him and hope that he emerges as a true follower of Jesus, committed to devotion to God, loving his enemies, standing with the poor and the marginalised, and putting others before himself.

But there’s even more to it than that. Baptism involves transformation, a different life, and what we might think of as a great, glorious coming clean. This new covenant is not just for us but to us; in other words, it’s not something that’s passive but for an adult is an indication of action and movement, and it also demands humility and contrition.

[JamesWales]

We don't like the press

Let's ban them

Al Jazerha

If you think a free press is important though (and it is) then Israel is by far your biggest friend in the middle east.

Same as if you believe in democracy, in the right for gay men to leave in peace and all the rest of it.

Let's not forget that Israel is by some distance the country where arab citizens have the most freedom.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

If you think a free press is important though (and it is) then Israel is by far your biggest friend in the middle east.

Same as if you believe in democracy, in the right for gay men to leave in peace and all the rest of it.

Let's not forget that Israel is by some distance the country where arab citizens have the most freedom.

Tell that to the people of gaza as they are getting bombed

Democracy my arse

They are being probed ......they are being found out

So they are shutting down anything that digs up the truth

Israel are losing this war bit by bit

[Gofer Blue]

We don't like the press

Let's ban them

Al Jazerha

Al Jazeera still broadcasting from Gaza of course.

[JamesWales]

Tell that to the people of gaza as they are getting bombed

Democracy my arse

They are being probed ......they are being found out

So they are shutting down anything that digs up the truth

Israel are losing this war bit by bit

Democracies still do shit things but the fact still remains it's by far the most liberal and free part of the middle east

[stevo]

The most liberal yes, but that doesn’t excuse them of war crimes.

[JamesWales]

The most liberal yes, but that doesn’t excuse them of war crimes.

No, two seperated issues. But the report is about big bad Israel restricting media when it still has a comparatively very open media.

I do wish the reality of these things Vs perception would be pushed out more.

[the other bob wilson]

No, two seperated issues. But the report is about big bad Israel restricting media when it still has a comparatively very open media.

I do wish the reality of these things Vs perception would be pushed out more.

Your reality you mean.

[the other bob wilson]

The most liberal yes, but that doesn’t excuse them of war crimes.

Liberal as long as you report the news in a manner they want you to.

[JamesWales]

Your reality you mean.

Such a depressing comment.

[truthpaste]

Democracies still do shit things but the fact still remains it's by far the most liberal and free part of the middle east

By a country mile

[truthpaste]

P.S. Sorry to hi-jack the thread but as the conversation (inevitably it seems!) has recently turned to "religion" I see that Russell Brand has recently been baptised and declares that he is now a Christian. Like Michael Coren says* (https://inews.co.uk/opinion/russell-...aptism-3032293) I look forward to seeing the change in him. "By their fruits you shall know them". To quote the vernacular: the proof of the pudding is in the eating!

I wonder what other posters make of this?

* Quote from the Coren article: One of the delights of my priestly life is when I’m asked to perform a baptism. Sometimes it will be babies held by their parents, but often it’s mature people who have come to know Jesus Christ, and long for this sacramental bonding into God’s family. I welcome every one of them.

I have the same attitude towards Russell Brand, who has just announced to his millions of online followers that on Sunday he was baptised. He said that he felt “incredibly blessed” and that he was “nourished” by it all. I’m delighted for him and hope that he emerges as a true follower of Jesus, committed to devotion to God, loving his enemies, standing with the poor and the marginalised, and putting others before himself.

But there’s even more to it than that. Baptism involves transformation, a different life, and what we might think of as a great, glorious coming clean. This new covenant is not just for us but to us; in other words, it’s not something that’s passive but for an adult is an indication of action and movement, and it also demands humility and contrition.

While I share your desire to see him live it in his everyday life to prove he is truly serving Christ, the emphasis on baptism will potentially be misleading to many. As I mentioned yesterday, religious ceremonies have no direct impact on a persons eternal destiny, and can only point (as baptism after repentance does) to a commitment that has already taken place; the Bible says, 'believe and be baptised', because it's faith in Christ that saves, and not any religious act or man-made ceremony.

[truthpaste]

And for me there is no 'hope' that your supernatural beliefs are nonsense - no 'hope' needed - just disgust that they lead you and those that share your views ('the Land they were given in writing') into cheerleading ethnic cleansing!

What a bizzare leap?
To assume that I am in agreement with all that Israel do from day to day, and more than that, that I am jumping up and down in glee!
Sure, your beloved 'The Guardian' may be mainly black & white, but life generally isn't.
I may love and support my children, yet do I agree with all they do on a daily basis? Obviously not.
Please give a little more thought before you take such unfounded leaps in the future.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Meanwhile the Newport Palestine Solidarity Campaign are organizing a demonstration in Cardiff at 6pm today. Either that or it's the Cardiff Palestine Solidarity Campaign demonstrating in Newport. Or .....