Renationalising The Trains

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Nationalisation was and is a unworkable mechism in theses times, unless you can except a raid on you pensions, tax, cost of living will rise... No way on earth could the UK nationalise the rolling stock, the rail companies are easy pickings to fund.

Don't be fooled by Labours nationalisation blabbering, they would bring back flares if it gave them power..


In reality the current government has taken back into government ownership anyway.

In 2014, Network Rail was classified as a "government body" and the company's debt of £34 billion was added was to the national debt...

In 2016–17 , Network Rail's net debt rose from £41.6 billion to £46.3 billion....


Yey all good.. Sly Sir Kier knows this..

You are a right daft twat

[Eric Cartman]

No but the Tories will try it one day

Well I don't think they will but people who automatically think things like trains naturally can't be an efficient publicly run service need to explain why all these other things are fundamentally different and can be.

[Eric Cartman]

Nationalisation was and is a unworkable mechism in theses times, unless you can except a raid on you pensions, tax, cost of living will rise... No way on earth could the UK nationalise the rolling stock, the rail companies are easy pickings to fund.

Don't be fooled by Labours nationalisation blabbering, they would bring back flares if it gave them power..


In reality the current government has taken back into government ownership anyway.

In 2014, Network Rail was classified as a "government body" and the company's debt of £34 billion was added was to the national debt...

In 2016–17 , Network Rail's net debt rose from £41.6 billion to £46.3 billion....


Yey all good.. Sly Sir Kier knows this..

I remember a clip of Owen Jones and Peter Hitchins and they both unequivocally agreed that nationalisation of natural monopoly's like rail and water was correct. I tend to think if two people who you would expect to have polar opposite opinions agree then it's probably the right thing to do.

[PontBlue]

Renationalising the trains in Wales seem to finally be paying off after years of underinvestment by Arriva

https://news.tfw.wales/news/june-2024-timetable-change

[Gofer Blue]

Whilst I agree the present rail system is almost farcical, nationalisation sounds a great idea in principle but I well remember the 70's when ASLEF held the entire country to ransom, not just isolated sections of the rail network as today. I can offer no easy solution.

[HiVis]

Labour (Louise Haigh) nationalisation plans specifically exclude rolling stock and (I think) the track. It is just about bringing the operations of the train operating companies back into public control as and when the contracts expire.

Not sure of the rationale for this half and half plan - though assume it is so they can say it will not cost a penny (and will make big savings for the Treasury). The figure they are using is £2.2 billion per year after 5 years. With that they should be able to buy back the trains and track too - and have an integrated transport system.

It will make a change from the government temporarily nationalising routes when train franchises fail and then giving them away again when they have recovered. Or in other words a change from nationalising debt and privatising profit. Or in other words a change from tax payers subsidising shareholders. Or in other words parasite capitalism.

FOCs have to pay franchise fees whereas the state, when it takes over a franchise, does not. That's how the taxpayer recoups there money.

Anyway, I digress from the point I was making. Whether you believe in state or privately run is moot, what we really need is massive infrastructure investment in public works, public infrastructure, integrated bus, rail, light rail. These works creates jobs, wealth and improves productivity. Whatever happened to Labour being the party of investment - investment is what this country is crying out for.

We've seen how the Tories dithered over HS2, and whilst I'm not discussing the merits of HS2 or otherwise, its clear the Tories don't have a plan to invest in the UKs future.

[PontBlue]

FOCs have to pay franchise fees whereas the state, when it takes over a franchise, does not. That's how the taxpayer recoups there money.

Anyway, I digress from the point I was making. Whether you believe in state or privately run is moot, what we really need is massive infrastructure investment in public works, public infrastructure, integrated bus, rail, light rail. These works creates jobs, wealth and improves productivity. Whatever happened to Labour being the party of investment - investment is what this country is crying out for.

We've seen how the Tories dithered over HS2, and whilst I'm not discussing the merits of HS2 or otherwise, its clear the Tories don't have a plan to invest in the UKs future.

There are so many opportunities to invest to grow and future proof the UK but the Tories wasted years of historically low interest rates to generate funds.

There should be ambitious programmes to make our homes more energy efficient, tidal energy should have been explored plus many others but they don't benefit individuals and companies who bribe Tories to stick with their old business models.

[pipster]

There are so many opportunities to invest to grow and future proof the UK but the Tories wasted years of historically low interest rates to generate funds.

There should be ambitious programmes to make our homes more energy efficient, tidal energy should have been explored plus many others but they don't benefit individuals and companies who bribe Tories to stick with their old business models.

Maybe you should have a chat with a Soil company based in Lamby way - that was being investigated for toxic sludge dumping.
Maybe we should nationalise everything?

[chrisp_1927]

Renationalising the trains in Wales seem to finally be paying off after years of underinvestment by Arriva

https://news.tfw.wales/news/june-2024-timetable-change

The changes on the tfw network are down to a massive(and very welcome) capital investment in TFW by the Welsh government. This investment would have happened whatever badge was on the side of the trains. The Welsh rail system, like rail systems in most areas is always going to be loss making and require government investment.

Personally, I think it makes sense for the rail system to be nationalised. But the idea that out problems were down to lack of investment by arriva isn't true. Their job was to run the trains on the budgets they were given via subsidy(which they did pretty badly 🤣), but it wasn't in their remit to spunk billions on infrastructure improvements

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

The changes on the tfw network are down to a massive(and very welcome) capital investment in TFW by the Welsh government. This investment would have happened whatever badge was on the side of the trains. The Welsh rail system, like rail systems in most areas is always going to be loss making and require government investment.

Personally, I think it makes sense for the rail system to be nationalised. But the idea that out problems were down to lack of investment by arriva isn't true. Their job was to run the trains on the budgets they were given via subsidy(which they did pretty badly 🤣), but it wasn't in their remit to spunk billions on infrastructure improvements

I can't see that having the tracks owned centrally and the private companies running the service makes sense

[chrisp_1927]

I can't see that having the tracks owned centrally and the private companies running the service makes sense

Agree. I don't think it makes a massive amount of sense either. A lot of work done recently to try and get decision makers in train operating companies and network rail speaking together more often to get better access to track and get on top of issues etc. kind of begs the question of why they haven't been doing it anyway. The separation and compartmentalisation has probably played a large role in that disconnect between the 2

[goats]

There are so many opportunities to invest to grow and future proof the UK but the Tories wasted years of historically low interest rates to generate funds.

There should be ambitious programmes to make our homes more energy efficient, tidal energy should have been explored plus many others but they don't benefit individuals and companies who bribe Tories to stick with their old business models.

Surely we should be using the tides to generate power, as it’s such an issue these days. 2nd biggest tidal range in the world between Bristol and Cardiff, one day there will be a barrage to generate power. Then there’s wind, plenty of that too.