Starmer is absolutely incompetent and could easily blow it all

[Keyser Soze]

If you think taking politician X out and putting politician Y in power is going to change your life - I think that will not happen. There are bigger forces present than just a flavour of politics. We had a global pandemic, supply chains still not working, global depression, we had Ukraine and the ongoing Russian threat and not forgetting we all voted for Brexit to happen. Corbyns politics would have made a bad situation worse. Starmer in power or Sunak - wont make a blind bit of difference other than to give fools false hope.

Usual rule of thumb is 12-18 years in power then change - then the other lot come in - rinse and repeat. Apart from in Wales - where we only have 1 party in power and they have no fear of c0cking anything up - as they know they'll be returned into power every time by a small minority of lemmings

To a degree I agree. The situation is now so grave that any politician now has an elephant-sized turd to clean up with a teaspoon.

The accumulation of UK debt is a disaster waiting to happen.But it has occurred across these period from the two Labour and Conservative periods:

1. New Labour 2006-2010 (1997-2005 was OK and fhey were good) . When Brown started yanking control of the government departments around 2005 the rot started. The government spending and debt started wasnaccelerating from around 2006, prior to the crash. But the GFC crash made it worse.

2. The post Cameron-Osborne Conservatives since around 2016-2024 (Cameron and Osborne stablised the huge debt). After that, the Conservatives lost control of economic competence

Whoever comes in now cannot be worse than Sunak. He has lost control of the econony, NHS, schooling, infrastructure and roads, social housing, private housing, and even private landlords have had enough (that takes some doing). Business support is dropping off the cliff. Both personal and party image is irrecoverable short term - and that view is fully justified. The man is cretinous. It is not so much that Starmer is a genius. It is partly that he cannot be any worse. He just needs to be average to look relatively great. And partly because he at least sounds adult like.

As for Welsh politics, the saying doing the rounds if you are a Welsh Labour leader, is that “Your South Career is even safer than the job in North Korea”. I like it!

[pipster]

"1. New Labour 2006-2010 (1997-2005 was OK and fhey were good) . When Brown started yanking control of the government departments around 2005 the rot started. The government spending and debt started wasnaccelerating from around 2006, prior to the crash. But the GFC crash made it worse."

I disagree slightly - The rot started when Brown went nuts on PFI and hid it off the balance books. Giving us growth of around 3.5% which baffled everyone until we realised he had hidden PFI from the books. Things were on average 300% more expensive using PFI. Those chickens came home to roost when the Tories got in (great timing by Brown) - add in the the crash in the Brown / Darling years, plus Browns very light touch on the financial regulations and it was the ultimate curve ball from the socialist's financial rule book.

A few years later add in Brexit, Covid, Ukraine - and I'm surprised any politician left standing has not had a nervous breakdown. Listening to Rayner and Starma now saying - all you have to do is vote for us and our problems will be solved is just not true - unfortunately. All they will do is take us back to the 1970's, unions, strikes, militant tendency and re nationalisation.

[Eric Cartman]

"1. New Labour 2006-2010 (1997-2005 was OK and fhey were good) . When Brown started yanking control of the government departments around 2005 the rot started. The government spending and debt started wasnaccelerating from around 2006, prior to the crash. But the GFC crash made it worse."

I disagree slightly - The rot started when Brown went nuts on PFI and hid it off the balance books. Giving us growth of around 3.5% which baffled everyone until we realised he had hidden PFI from the books. Things were on average 300% more expensive using PFI. Those chickens came home to roost when the Tories got in (great timing by Brown) - add in the the crash in the Brown / Darling years, plus Browns very light touch on the financial regulations and it was the ultimate curve ball from the socialist's financial rule book.

A few years later add in Brexit, Covid, Ukraine - and I'm surprised any politician left standing has not had a nervous breakdown. Listening to Rayner and Starma now saying - all you have to do is vote for us and our problems will be solved is just not true - unfortunately. All they will do is take us back to the 1970's, unions, strikes, militant tendency and re nationalisation.

Hilariously biased to the point where it isn't even worth reading anything you write.

Essentially labours woes were entirely caused by themselves and the Tories were just unlucky with world events. Yeah right buddy, you must be the last person in the UK who believes that.

[pipster]

Hilariously biased to the point where it isn't even worth reading anything you write.

Essentially labours woes were entirely caused by themselves and the Tories were just unlucky with world events. Yeah right buddy, you must be the last person in the UK who believes that.

Really...!
Ironically it was John Major that introduced PFI (but Im sure you knew that already). As Im sure you are aware - Brown was far too easy on the finance regs especially where high St and corporate banks were concerned and then went at PFI as if no one would notice. Food banks were introduced under the Blair Govt as was the WMD lie. Cameron stupidly gave in to the Brexit mob.

You probably think it was Thatcher that created Covid and Johnson that allowed the Ukraine invasion to happen.

Jog on

[Eric Cartman]

Really...!
Ironically it was John Major that introduced PFI (but Im sure you knew that already). As Im sure you are aware - Brown was far too easy on the finance regs especially where high St and corporate banks were concerned and then went at PFI as if no one would notice. Food banks were introduced under the Blair Govt as was the WMD lie. Cameron stupidly gave in to the Brexit mob.

You probably think it was Thatcher that created Covid and Johnson that allowed the Ukraine invasion to happen.

Jog on

Right to buy was a long term disaster
PFI was a long term disaster
Austerity was a long term disaster

The fact that the worst you can say about Cameron and the towel folder is that they gave into brexiteers says a lot.

[pipster]

Right to buy was a long term disaster
PFI was a long term disaster
Austerity was a long term disaster

The fact that the worst you can say about Cameron and the towel folder is that they gave into brexiteers says a lot.

If your aim here is to try and change my opinion - you really should be doing something else -somewhere else.
ps Brexit - Covid -Ukraine - have hit the UK economy a lot harder than the items on your list (in my opinion obviously - I couldnt give a flying f uck what your opinion is)

[Eric Cartman]

If your aim here is to try and change my opinion - you really should be doing something else -somewhere else.
ps Brexit - Covid -Ukraine - have hit the UK economy a lot harder than the items on your list (in my opinion obviously - I couldnt give a flying f uck what your opinion is)

..and the global financial crisis had more effect than anything labour did during their years in power but you didn't seem keen to frame it that way.

If I see something on here that I disagree with, I reply, and you telling me not to isn't going to stop me doing that. If you can't help but get aggressive when somebody questions something you are saying then you are probably better off just keeping it in your own head.

[pipster]

..and the global financial crisis had more effect than anything labour did during their years in power but you didn't seem keen to frame it that way.

If I see something on here that I disagree with, I reply, and you telling me not to isn't going to stop me doing that. If you can't help but get aggressive when somebody questions something you are saying then you are probably better off just keeping it in your own head.

Let me refer you to the answer I've already given - see above

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

"1. New Labour 2006-2010 (1997-2005 was OK and fhey were good) . When Brown started yanking control of the government departments around 2005 the rot started. The government spending and debt started wasnaccelerating from around 2006, prior to the crash. But the GFC crash made it worse."

I disagree slightly - The rot started when Brown went nuts on PFI and hid it off the balance books. Giving us growth of around 3.5% which baffled everyone until we realised he had hidden PFI from the books. Things were on average 300% more expensive using PFI. Those chickens came home to roost when the Tories got in (great timing by Brown) - add in the the crash in the Brown / Darling years, plus Browns very light touch on the financial regulations and it was the ultimate curve ball from the socialist's financial rule book.

A few years later add in Brexit, Covid, Ukraine - and I'm surprised any politician left standing has not had a nervous breakdown. Listening to Rayner and Starma now saying - all you have to do is vote for us and our problems will be solved is just not true - unfortunately. All they will do is take us back to the 1970's, unions, strikes, militant tendency and re nationalisation.

Strikes ?

Almost everyone has been out under recent tory rule

No ?

Renationalisation will be great if its financially viable , the utilities , water , trains , buses , social services .........absolutely fecked under the Tories

[Keyser Soze]

Strikes ?

Almost everyone has been out under recent tory rule

No ?

Renationalisation will be great if its financially viable , the utilities , water , trains , buses , social services .........absolutely fecked under the Tories

Quite. Keir Starmer is being advised by Blair and Mandelson. I don’t know how many times I have to post it, but I have done on this thread.

There are left wingers in Labour’s midst as always. But they won’t be in control. According to Blair in the FT he will install an army of Tony Blair Institute (TBI) government advisers across government departments when they win. He was open and brazen about it.

The idea that the unions will dominate Starmer’s thinking is for the birds.

[Keyser Soze]

..and the global financial crisis had more effect than anything labour did during their years in power but you didn't seem keen to frame it that way.

If I see something on here that I disagree with, I reply, and you telling me not to isn't going to stop me doing that. If you can't help but get aggressive when somebody questions something you are saying then you are probably better off just keeping it in your own head.

What a load of immature rubbish that post is. Your post is political. Mine is based on economic statistics, andnexperience in the City around that time, and another 12 years after it.

Government was already running a budget deficit more than a 2 years before recession / GFC, starting around 2006

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...ernment-budget

Debt to GDP (switch to max). After New Labourbperiod of stability, and sticking to Ken Clarke’s spending plans in 97-2003, the acceleration in debt start in 2004-05, some 3-4 years before the GFC. You can also see the debt stabilised by Cameron/Osborne around 2014-16 period. Until other Tories took charge and blasted debt out of the water and resumed upward path.

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...nt-debt-to-gdp

So you can “call out” what you want Eric. Or think so. But you have called out nothing - except your own stupidity. You are clearly that out of your depth that you have tried to argue that black is white, with no basic reference to data sources at all: just biased hot air. Let’s not get into CV-comparing around this subject or it could get very embarrassing very quickly for you. This is a new low for you as a messageboard Wind Up Merchant. Clearly you are way out of your depth on this one.

Sorry to be blunt, but you deserve it - you haven’t even got the most basic of secondary school skills to even reference or find the secondary source of info. Find another subject son, but you will not be duelling me for long on this subject. You’re like a ten year old boy trying to advise John Holmes on how to grow a decent cock.

Stick to abuse. You have an O Level in that I am sure. Or making a cup of tea. Be a good boy, now.

[the other bob wilson]

What a load of immature rubbish that post is. Your post is political. Mine is based on economic statistics, andnexperience in the City around that time, and another 12 years after it.

Government was already running a budget deficit more than a 2 years before recession / GFC, starting around 2006

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...ernment-budget

Debt to GDP (switch to max). After New Labourbperiod of stability, and sticking to Ken Clarke’s spending plans in 97-2003, the acceleration in debt start in 2004-05, some 3-4 years before the GFC. You can also see the debt stabilised by Cameron/Osborne around 2014-16 period. Until other Tories took charge and blasted debt out of the water and resumed upward path.

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...nt-debt-to-gdp

So you can “call out” what you want Eric. Or think so. But you have called out nothing - except your own stupidity. You are clearly that out of your depth that you have tried to argue that black is white, with no basic reference to data sources at all: just biased hot air. Let’s not get into CV-comparing around this subject or it could get very embarrassing very quickly for you. This is a new low for you as a messageboard Wind Up Merchant. Clearly you are way out of your depth on this one.

Sorry to be blunt, but you deserve it - you haven’t even got the most basic of secondary school skills to even reference or find the secondary source of info. Find another subject son, but you will not be duelling me for long on this subject. You’re like a ten year old boy trying to advise John Holmes on how to grow a decent cock.

Stick to abuse. You have an O Level in that I am sure. Or making a cup of tea. Be a good boy, now.

I’ve always thought that in its most basic terms, politics is an argument between people whose primary instinct is to think of people and those who first think of money or business - you consistently come at things from the latter perspective.

I get that you usually need money to implement the changes that those whose priority is people want to make, but it seems to me that we’ve had fourteen years of rule by a party who have not been able, or maybe been willing, to implement positive changes for the people, apart from the very richest amongst them.

[Eric Cartman]

What a load of immature rubbish that post is. Your post is political. Mine is based on economic statistics, andnexperience in the City around that time, and another 12 years after it.

Government was already running a budget deficit more than a 2 years before recession / GFC, starting around 2006

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...ernment-budget

Debt to GDP (switch to max). After New Labourbperiod of stability, and sticking to Ken Clarke’s spending plans in 97-2003, the acceleration in debt start in 2004-05, some 3-4 years before the GFC. You can also see the debt stabilised by Cameron/Osborne around 2014-16 period. Until other Tories took charge and blasted debt out of the water and resumed upward path.

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...nt-debt-to-gdp

So you can “call out” what you want Eric. Or think so. But you have called out nothing - except your own stupidity. You are clearly that out of your depth that you have tried to argue that black is white, with no basic reference to data sources at all: just biased hot air. Let’s not get into CV-comparing around this subject or it could get very embarrassing very quickly for you. This is a new low for you as a messageboard Wind Up Merchant. Clearly you are way out of your depth on this one.

Sorry to be blunt, but you deserve it - you haven’t even got the most basic of secondary school skills to even reference or find the secondary source of info. Find another subject son, but you will not be duelling me for long on this subject. You’re like a ten year old boy trying to advise John Holmes on how to grow a decent cock.

Stick to abuse. You have an O Level in that I am sure. Or making a cup of tea. Be a good boy, now.

Well I am glad you have finally managed to get the opportunity to tell everybody how clever you are but I am afraid you just look like another frustrated failure throwing their weight around on a message board that nobody reads.

Where does such a successful and intelligent man find the time to write 1500 word essays about nothing that often nobody reads or replies to? It must be because they aren't clever enough to understand what you are saying. I tend to think the measure of someone's intellect is whether they can concisely capture their thoughts on a topic in a way which others can quickly understand, you can't do this.

Thank you for introducing me to the 'budget deficit' as you call it. I hadn't heard of that before, you have clearly done your research on this topic and proven yet again what a intellectual heavyweight you are.

They reduced the budget deficit because their sole focus was on reducing the budget deficit, at all costs. Political parties do this, they make a pledge and then ignore the overwhelming downsides they encounter to achieve that pledge. The costs were social and economic, the social costs were well publicised with, amongst other things, people killing themselves because of the undue pressure they were put under. The economic cost was a missed opportunity, interest rates were at basement levels for years and we didn't build enough across all sectors for ideological reasons. Almost every crisis we face now was worsened under the Cameron government in pursuit of 'balancing the books'. Companies do not invest in countries that don't invest in themselves.

[Eric Cartman]

Government was already running a budget deficit more than a 2 years before recession / GFC, starting around 2006

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...ernment-budget

Debt to GDP (switch to max). After New Labourbperiod of stability, and sticking to Ken Clarke’s spending plans in 97-2003, the acceleration in debt start in 2004-05, some 3-4 years before the GFC. You can also see the debt stabilised by Cameron/Osborne around 2014-16 period. Until other Tories took charge and blasted debt out of the water and resumed upward path.

On this one point, before you decided to get personal (and a bit weird in my opinion, talking about 'decent cocks' and saying 'fetch me a cup of tea boy' in the same post is an interesting window into your brain, you might want to reign that behaviour in before you get a reputation). You talk about a budget deficit as if it is always a bad thing, this is misguided because government investment is basically a magic wand. The key is going to be if spending has a return greater than the short term cost, which becomes pretty complex pretty quickly.

Labour would likely have been fine without the GFC but that was their mistake, essentially betting the entire bankroll on everything being fine always.

[Eric Cartman]

I hadn't noticed this in my morning haze but Keyser appears to be personally taking offence to my criticisms of Pipsters post.. have I uncovered a mythical multi-accounter? I always wanted one.

[pipster]

I hadn't noticed this in my morning haze but Keyser appears to be personally taking offence to my criticisms of Pipsters post.. have I uncovered a mythical multi-accounter? I always wanted one.

Not me, if in doubt ask Mike for the IP address (which we know can be spoofed) but he should also be able to get the MAC address - which cant be duplicated. If you dont understand that - no problem