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Not sure really. I have just come to find the liberal left very annoying and dishonest. But Trump himself is very dishonest too.Originally Posted by stevo
I have a friend in Minneapolis too. He was quite anti Trump but he said the other week the sheer number of homeless and level of immigration just cannot be remotely sustained.
I think the neo liberal age is coming to an end. If the Left are wise they will benefit from it.
Anyone hear that spokesperson for the Israeli government (Abu Hyman) on Radio 4 today? When being interviewed by Sarah Montague, he denied there was any famine or starvation in Gaza and that the UN and various aid agencies were lying, claiming they had been infiltrated by Hamas.
That's quite 'a take' James.
Annoying woke lefties versus an authoritarian, who tried to overturn a democratic election and then incited an insurrection in an attempt to remain in power.
I'm not up to date with the dishonesty on both sides though so happily will be put right.
The notion that the American Democratic Party is run by woke lefties is an interesting one as well.
Don't all 'woke lefties' arm Israel?
Well I never called them "woke lefties" did I? Although you have demonstrated one of those annoying traits there; taking what someone said, not really listened, mocked it and misrepresented it. Usually it takes the tone of "I don't believe in open borders" being misrepresented as someone being labelled racist, so this is a new take!
What’s the liberal left (your words) if it isn’t meant to signal woke lefties?
Well they are just two different terms with different connotations. Like if I called you 'left-wing' or called you a 'leftard' it can be interpreted differently. I try not to use the word woke much as it gets misinterpreted.
That said, I appreciate the similarities. But I would say the liberal left is a more established term. It can be used to describe things perhaps back to the 60s in America, certainly to Blair's time here. Wokeism, whatever the **** it is, is far more modern.
And aside from anything else, woke people aren't really liberals. In my experience they are just about the least tolerant people you will meet if you don't subscribe to their world view.
So, different things 👍
Have a puff on your inhaler buddy. I didn't mean to bring on a cardiac.
I wasn't having a dig at you per se just thought it was surprising comparison?
You could've just said all politicians tell fibs.
Now if you could point out the liberal left fibs in comparison to Trumps, I'd be grateful and I can put away the defibrillator.
Ha, I think we have both been around the block long enough to know that was not a cardiac inducing response from me! Pretty reasoned explanation I thought!
I think the liberal left is very dishonest about things like the realities of immigration, social issues, racism and the like, but it's like a church admitting their doctrines are wrong. It will take them a long time to realise. I also thing they are pretty hypocritical, but all of this goes for all sides. I don't like the way they often think they are better than others.
I dunno Jordi..Trump will likely win. Millions will vote for him. Why do you think they will?
Hmmm...
It's a good question and I'm tempted to say because a sizeable number of voters in the USA are morons but I won't.
Most are concerned about the economy and wider politics doesn't really concern them, Trump I think is seen as the safer bet for remedying the issues they're having at this moment.
Trumps populist policies of mass deportation will also go down well with some.
I don't think Gaza, Ukraine and the recent issues with Iran have helped Biden. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
I always feel that the USA is always teetering on the edge of rabid nationalism. Trump appeals to those sensibilities as in some ways he's an isolationist (probably more protectionist?). This will appeal to many in the states as they're wider concerns on a world scale are negligible.
There's my humble opinion based on precisely phuck all.
You answered your question yourself when you said "things like the realities of immigration, social issues, racism and the like", you know, typical culture wars stuff.
Why are issues that others care about "culture wars" but issues the left care about more legitimate? It's another example of the kind of annoying dismissive nature of things that is a pretty heavy mist around a lot of left wing thinking in recent years.
Much better to just say...you know what...fair point. They are important topics. This is what I think on those things. That's better than dismissing them.
Immigration for example is hardly a culture war issue. It's of profound importance to any country's economy, culture, social fabric, healthcare system, etc etc etc.
Id say the wider analysis is much better than the first point!
Some good points Jordi. But the 1st paragraph did it.
You keep on telling us that immigration is so important and, as is often the case with you, take it as read that you are right. It's far lower on my list of priorities with one of the reasons for this being that it seems to me that people who bang on about it so much are pretty much one trick ponies.
What an odd take. I'm not saying it is important to you. You will have your own concerns, although I'd be surprised if immigration isn't on there somewhere, but that's up to you.
But we weren't talking about you, were we? I was talking about the US election on this part, and specifically what drives Trumps base, and immigration is a very important topic there. That's just a fact. Ive never seen a survey that suggests otherwise.
Is this a joke ?
Yes absolute swivel eyed lunatic
Zionist nutcase
What bit of it is incredulous?
You don’t seem to get that an awful lot of people don’t think like you do. At the moment I’m watching the start of last night’s Question Time where the audience was asked what subject they would like to see tackled during and after the election campaign, I believe ten people answered and not one of them mentioned immigration or small boats. I’m not saying that many people don’t give any thought to immigration, but that most of them (I’m pretty confident it’s a majority in this country) don’t have it as too high a priority.
On the other hand, there is a vocal minority for which immigration is the top priority for them (sometimes it’s hard to avoid the feeling it’s the only priority for some of them) - I’ll always maintain that immigration played a large part in the Brexit vote. I happen to think that the size of the minority is larger in America than it is here which goes a long way towards explaining why Trump could win. I wouldn’t vote for him under any circumstances and find your reasoning for doing so very unconvincing.
Again, Bob, we are talking about Trump aren't we? It's an absolute fact that that it's a high priority. Thats not me making it up
I saw QT too. Lots of people for whom it is an issue don't vocalise it anyway as they get criticised, but of course, it's an issue for many not all (and feeds into most other topics too btw), but as I say, it's certainly an issue in the US election, which is what the temporary deviation in the topic at hand was about.
That you would vote for trump
That is a joke , it must be
I find liberal lefties annoying
I can't stand the trendy lefties who hate sexism but spend party conferences in the bar chatting up the ladies
I find some of the politically correct right on causes ridiculous
But if I was given the chance of voting for a daft old Biden or a very dangerous trump then it wouldn't even be a second of thought
I think it's mental that it's Trump v Biden, but I really think Biden is making the US a worse place, especially for ordinary working people. And I don't like his cultural input which I find divisive.
I also think there is remarkably little evidence that Biden makes the world safer.
But yeah, Trump is off his rocker. I agree on that, but I can see why Americans would vote for him over Biden and I think I would do the same.
Like pretty much everyone, I wish it wasn't Biden on the ticket. However, Biden seems to have the best interests of USA at heart; you can definitely disagree with things he's done but he does want people's lives to be better. Trump has no interest in that whatsoever, everything he does has to have something in it for him. Trump is also quite clearly out for personal revenge on those who have opposed him. This isn't breaking news by any means.
As for ordinary working people and cultural input - Trump overturned Roe v Wade and is proud of it. Nothing Biden has done comes anywhere near that.
All of Biden's shortcomings - age, verbal slipups, etc - also apply to Trump. But the opposite cannot be said.
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