40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

[JamesWales]

Like pretty much everyone, I wish it wasn't Biden on the ticket. However, Biden seems to have the best interests of USA at heart; you can definitely disagree with things he's done but he does want people's lives to be better. Trump has no interest in that whatsoever, everything he does has to have something in it for him. Trump is also quite clearly out for personal revenge on those who have opposed him. This isn't breaking news by any means.

As for ordinary working people and cultural input - Trump overturned Roe v Wade and is proud of it. Nothing Biden has done comes anywhere near that.

All of Biden's shortcomings - age, verbal slipups, etc - also apply to Trump. But the opposite cannot be said.

He's a total narcissist and not a nice bloke. But I think his policies would generally favour Americans which is why he will likely win.

I don't have an issue with Roe v Wade being determined at a state level. It's a huge issue for many there, a definite moral point of argument and if people in some states don't agree, I think that's fair enough. I absolutely think that a woman should have a right to choose but I can see why others find the practice morally uncomfortable. It does strike me as a potentially more democratic way to deal with it, I dunno.

[lardy]

He's a total narcissist and not a nice bloke. But I think his policies would generally favour Americans which is why he will likely win.

I don't have an issue with Roe v Wade being determined at a state level. It's a huge issue for many there, a definite moral point of argument and if people in some states don't agree, I think that's fair enough. I absolutely think that a woman should have a right to choose but I can see why others find the practice morally uncomfortable. It does strike me as a potentially more democratic way to deal with it, I dunno.

Which Trump policy, in particular, do you think stands out?

If a woman has a right to choose, I don't see how it's ok for states to decide and take that choice away. Abortion is legal in about 90% of countries worldwide, but is now banned in 14 states. It's a step backwards, an unpopular move in the US (about 2:1 disapprove of its removal). and also not a democratic move, given that it was overturned by an unelected and loaded Supreme Court.

I expect the Biden campaign to hammer that one hard.

[JamesWales]

Which Trump policy, in particular, do you think stands out?

If a woman has a right to choose, I don't see how it's ok for states to decide and take that choice away. Abortion is legal in about 90% of countries worldwide, but is now banned in 14 states. It's a step backwards, an unpopular move in the US (about 2:1 disapprove of its removal). and also not a democratic move, given that it was overturned by an unelected and loaded Supreme Court.

I expect the Biden campaign to hammer that one hard.

I'm not sure I've seen a comprehensive set of policies! Its more rhetoric. But I think being tougher on some crime and social issues, bolder on the world stage, rowing back on some race and identity based policies etc. I think they are good ideas.

I am firmly behind a woman's right to choose. But I'm also firmly behind a woman's right to show her hair or two men's right to marry. It doesn't mean that I don't think populations in different parts of the world shouldn't be able to determine it themselves, for better or worse.

I think you may find it helps to detoxify the issue

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

ICJ orders Israel to stop raffa offensive

[stevo]

In an attempt to get back on topic -

I'm sure you will have all heard by now:

The ICJ has made several orders including for Israel to:

* halt military operation in Rafah
* open the Rafah border crossing with Egypt for the entry of humanitarian aid at scale
* ensure access to Gaza for investigators and fact-finding missions
* report to the court within a month on its progress in applying these measures

edit: Ah, I see Sludge has already beaten me to it.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

In an attempt to get back on topic -

I'm sure you will have all heard by now:

The ICJ has made several orders including for Israel to:

* halt military operation in Rafah
* open the Rafah border crossing with Egypt for the entry of humanitarian aid at scale
* ensure access to Gaza for investigators and fact-finding missions
* report to the court within a month on its progress in applying these measures

edit: Ah, I see Sludge has already beaten me to it.

They can of course completely ignore it

[goats]

They can of course completely ignore it

Just like the Russians eh?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Just like the Russians eh?

Yep

And we really showed them

[stevo]

There’s a serious lack of coverage of this story in the British media today in favour of the GE.
No reaction from any U.K. or US politicians. Hmmm…

[JamesWales]

There’s a serious lack of coverage of this story in the British media today in favour of the GE.
No reaction from any U.K. or US politicians. Hmmm…

I think it's probably more to do with waiting to see the response. (And of course the GE).

They should release the hostages and bring it to an end.

[jon1959]

I think it's probably more to do with waiting to see the response. (And of course the GE).

They should release the hostages and bring it to an end.

Why do you think release of the hostages would bring 'it' to an end?

If Hamas release their hostages the Israeli government would not end the destruction of Gaza and massacre of civilians (under the pretext of destroying Hamas).

I assume you are not talking about the hostages held by Israel (AKA Palestinian prisoners held without charge or trial - often for years)?

The only outcome that will bring this to an end - or at least to a period of truce, rebuilding, and possibly some reconciliation - is a political settlement. That will not happen with the Netanyahu government in power. It may not happen with the current Hamas and PA leadership in power. It will not happen if the USA does not use its' diplomatic, financial and military influence to achieve it.

But world opinion has moved and in my opinion there is more chance of a settlement now (after more pain and suffering) than any time in the last 20 years.

[JamesWales]

Why do you think release of the hostages would bring 'it' to an end?

If Hamas release their hostages the Israeli government would not end the destruction of Gaza and massacre of civilians (under the pretext of destroying Hamas).

I assume you are not talking about the hostages held by Israel (AKA Palestinian prisoners held without charge or trial - often for years)?

The only outcome that will bring this to an end - or at least to a period of truce, rebuilding, and possibly some reconciliation - is a political settlement. That will not happen with the Netanyahu government in power. It may not happen with the current Hamas and PA leadership in power. It will not happen if the USA does not use its' diplomatic, financial and military influence to achieve it.

But world opinion has moved and in my opinion there is more chance of a settlement now (after more pain and suffering) than any time in the last 20 years.

I think releasing all the hostages stolen on Oct 7th would massively help, yes.

[stevo]

Me thinks you’re naive

[the other bob wilson]

I think releasing all the hostages stolen on Oct 7th would massively help, yes.

The pre 7 October evidence is that it would not lead to an Israeli ceasefire.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Why do you think release of the hostages would bring 'it' to an end?

If Hamas release their hostages the Israeli government would not end the destruction of Gaza and massacre of civilians (under the pretext of destroying Hamas).

I assume you are not talking about the hostages held by Israel (AKA Palestinian prisoners held without charge or trial - often for years)?

The only outcome that will bring this to an end - or at least to a period of truce, rebuilding, and possibly some reconciliation - is a political settlement. That will not happen with the Netanyahu government in power. It may not happen with the current Hamas and PA leadership in power. It will not happen if the USA does not use its' diplomatic, financial and military influence to achieve it.

But world opinion has moved and in my opinion there is more chance of a settlement now (after more pain and suffering) than any time in the last 20 years.

Even with a Palestinian state and a sort of peacekeeping force in the region I don't share your optimism for long term peace

[JamesWales]

The pre 7 October evidence is that it would not lead to an Israeli ceasefire.

You don't think it would help? I don't think stealing innocent people and holding them hostage it legitimate in any way. Even if Israels response is disproportionate, Hamas could release them to ease the suffering of the people they supposedly care for.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

News report today

Footage of right wing Israeli settlers intercepting lorries carrying aid to gaza

Setting the convoy on fire and beating the crap into the drivers

Absolute lunatics

Yeah but they attacked us first etc , it's our land god told us

All nutters

No chance of peace , Palestinian state will reduce problems but it will always be there

[stevo]

Have you got link to that?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Have you got link to that?

BBC breakfast news , 8 am I saw it

[truthpaste]

You don't think it would help? I don't think stealing innocent people and holding them hostage it legitimate in any way. Even if Israels response is disproportionate, Hamas could release them to ease the suffering of the people they supposedly care for.

Spot on

Hamas.....care

[JamesWales]

BBC breakfast news , 8 am I saw it

I saw it too. Sludge is correct. The argument being that it is aiding the enemy etc. unfortunately Hamas no doubt do requisition a lot of stuff, but unfortunately that's the nature of it and doesn't justify the actions at all.

[Gofer Blue]

News report today

Footage of right wing Israeli settlers intercepting lorries carrying aid to gaza

Setting the convoy on fire and beating the crap into the drivers

Absolute lunatics

Yeah but they attacked us first etc , it's our land god told us

All nutters

No chance of peace , Palestinian state will reduce problems but it will always be there

You didn't mention that there were counter protests by other Israelis who are opposed to what's going on, even to the extent of picking up and repacking food parcels.

[jeepster]

You didn't mention that there were counter protests by other Israelis who are opposed to what's going on, even to the extent of picking up and repacking food parcels.

Those are very good people.
See there could be hope for the future.

[jon1959]

You didn't mention that there were counter protests by other Israelis who are opposed to what's going on, even to the extent of picking up and repacking food parcels.

Those are very good people.
See there could be hope for the future.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz9950n003yo

[the other bob wilson]

Netanyahu and co defending themselves again I suppose.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/no-lon...rike-in-rafah/