Club respond to open letter

[TWGL1]

You can dress it any way you like, but the truth is there's been absolutely nothing impressive about City's attendances so far this season, and everyone who has attended games with any regularity knows that - even you.

The attendance figures based on tickets sold are what every club uses as their official numbers.

You must you seen the swathes of empty seats during night matches throughout the EFL - even you must have noticed that ?

We are no different.

[The Lone Gunman]

The attendance figures based on tickets sold are what every club uses as their official numbers.

You must you seen the swathes of empty seats during night matches throughout the EFL - even you must have noticed that ?

We are no different.

I'm fully aware of how it works.

If you're not seeing what I and many others are seeing, then so be it. It's no big deal if you wish to be in denial about the situation. But, while the figures themselves are revealing, what I'm seeing with my own eyes is far more so.

In terms of the actual figures, City are currently averaging 3,500 less than Stoke, 3,200 less than Bristol City, 2,500 less than Hull and 1,400 less than Pompey. Impressive? Sure...

[TWGL1]

I'm fully aware of how it works.

If you're not seeing what I and many others are seeing, then so be it. It's no big deal if you wish to be in denial about the situation. But, while the figures themselves are revealing, what I'm seeing with my own eyes is far more so.

In terms of the actual figures, City are currently averaging 3,500 less than Stoke, 3,200 less than Bristol City, 2,500 less than Hull and 1,400 less than Pompey. Impressive? Sure...

I know exactly what I’m seeing , Pompey are on a roll , first season back and whilst we are averaging lower that the clubs you have mentioned, there are plenty of reasons as to why our crowds are lower than theirs, which I’ve already explained.

Ultimately for a city of our size , our support had always been poor , but the fact remains that the attendance figures City are getting under tan are the biggest since I’ve been supporting them. It’s also worth noting that when the stadium first opened the family stand had 6,000 season ticket sales which were basically free to children. Take them off and it’s a different story altogether.

[The Lone Gunman]

Ultimately for a city of our size , our support had always been poor , but the fact remains that the attendance figures City are getting under tan are the biggest since I’ve been supporting them.

They're smaller than last year. And the year before. You know that, right? But fair enough. I'll let you prevail as there really is no arguing with such an illogical position.

Apathy is not spreading. Crowds are not getting smaller. People are not drifting away. TWGL1 doesn't see it, so it isn't happening.

[the other bob wilson]

[QUOTE=TWGL1;5558217]

Yes but the sky Tv kick off times , the transport network back to the valleys and performance are all relative in respect of this seasons attendance figures

Still impressive considering the perceived “apathy” and the apparent need for the trust to go through unofficial channels

Why do you keep on singling out the Trust? There are two other supporters’ organisations involved as well as elected FAB members that put their names to the letter.

Let’s not forget either that this is a facility okayed by the club, backed by the Government (and the previous one), designed to give supporters more of a say in the workings of the club they support. I get that not all supporters will be interested in interacting with their club, but there’s are those who are and they are almost being encouraged to do so in this climate of fan engagement. Back in the 80s when the Thatcher Government wanted nothing to do with football and those who went to games, nobody would have had a problem with supporter views being ignored, but it’s a different world now - a letter like the one sent to Ken Choo and Mehmet Dalman might be uncomfortable for them, but “incendiary”? Hardly.

At the meeting with supporters reps on 1 November, Mr Dalman was asked if a manager would be in place soon and it’s been reported that all he said was “no”. An answer like that is hardly going to shut up fans who are asking what he probably regards as awkward questions, but they spent a fair bit of their reply to the open letter telling us how they had set up a system whereby dialogue with supporters will be improved - having done so, they should be doing better than “no” if they don’t want to be attracting letters like the one they received ten days ago.

[TWGL1]

They're smaller than last year. And the year before. You know that, right? But fair enough. I'll let you prevail as there really is no arguing with such an illogical position.

Apathy is not spreading. Crowds are not getting smaller. People are not drifting away. TWGL1 doesn't see it, so it isn't happening.

Last seasons average was higher than the two seasons before that and the highest for 8 out of the last 10 seasons and one of those was in the premier league

Kinda blows your mind that I suppose

This seasons average season ticket sales are marginally more than last year and we know why walk up crowds are down this season dont we ?

[Elwood Blues]

Good grief...

Happy was, I concede, not the right word to use.

But Bob's response seemed to suggest that Blue Matt could not be surprised at the comment because he had lost peoples respect

Most of us have used some intemperate langauage at times, but TheBirchgrovePub's rermark seemed completely unnecessary.

[TWGL1]

Happy was, I concede, not the right word to use.

But Bob's response seemed to suggest that Blue Matt could not be surprised at the comment because he had lost peoples respect

Most of us have used some intemperate langauage at times, but TheBirchgrovePub's rermark seemed completely unnecessary.

Certain posters simply cannot accept that people who have a minority opinion to the majority on this board exist

Bob is one of them ,but he’s more subtle in his snide remarks

It’s good that Matt can think for himself more eloquently than me 🤛

[cyril evans awaydays]

Happy was, I concede, not the right word to use.

But Bob's response seemed to suggest that Blue Matt could not be surprised at the comment because he had lost peoples respect

Most of us have used some intemperate langauage at times, but TheBirchgrovePub's rermark seemed completely unnecessary.

I agree that the language was completely unecessary and weakened the point he was trying to make. Though perhaps because Bob was called a snide twat who should STFU by one of the main protagonists in this post only a few days ago he may have thought this level of discourse is the acceptable norm on this board these days!

[the other bob wilson]

Certain posters simply cannot accept that people who have a minority opinion to the majority on this board exist

Bob is one of them ,but he’s more subtle in his snide remarks

It’s good that Matt can think for himself more eloquently than me ��

Why is saying I find another poster’s argument absurd and I don’t respect it “snide”? I didn’t use the sort of language Elwood is talking about and I didn’t tell anyone to STFU like some do on here.

[TWGL1]

I agree that the language was completely unecessary and weakened the point he was trying to make. Though perhaps because Bob was called a snide twat who should STFU by one of the main protagonists in this post only a few days ago he may have thought this level of discourse is the acceptable norm on this board these days!

Do do you think that was my response his snide underhanded comments was not justified then ? You have a habit of being a wind up as well but you do it so often you’re best to ignore these days.

[cyril evans awaydays]

Do do you think that was my response his snide underhanded comments was not justified then ? You have a habit of being a wind up as well but you do it so often you’re best to ignore these days.

No I think your comments were infantile and I think Elwood was quite within his rights to call out phrases like twat as eminating from an ignoramus.

[TWGL1]

No I think your comments were infantile and I think Elwood was quite within his rights to call out phrases like twat as eminating from an ignoramus.

Alright then

[North Cardiff Blue]

Certain posters simply cannot accept that people who have a minority opinion to the majority on this board exist

Bob is one of them ,but he’s more subtle in his snide remarks

It’s good that Matt can think for himself more eloquently than me ��

It's just a gang mentality on here, he has his sycophants, and if anyone disagrees they all jump on and tag team with nitpicking.

[Baloo]

[QUOTE=TWGL1;5558191]

City averaged an impressive 31,408 for home league games in 18/19. I've not checked it, but I'd be surprised if that's not in the club's top 5 average attendances for a season throughout its history. So, to say crowds under Vicent Tan have risen would not be wrong (I know for a fact that the 18/19 average attendance figure is higher than in any season since I saw my first home game in 63/64). However, a few thingsa need to be pointed out I feel.

For example, the crowd for the Millwall game was less than half of what we avaraged in 18/19 and I'd guess there's every chance it will be the same again tomorrow - the QPR crowd was just over 50 per cent of the 18/19 average. Our average league attendance this season is 18,876 which is very slightly below 60 per cent of the 18/19 figure.

In the last season before Vinvent Tan took over the ownership of the clun (09/10), City's average home league attendance was 19,413. Therefore, we now find ourselves in a position where the current team is much worse than the one Vincent Tan inherited and crowds are slightly smaller than they were when he took over, so Baloo is not wrong in saying that it's not as simple as a blanket statement saying crowds are up under vincent Tan even if it is accurate to say that crowds have, at times, been as high under this ownership as they've been since, at least, the 1950s.[/QUOTE

I’ve just posted the historical attendance numbers- it’s as clear as ever

When did Tan buy the club - May 2010?

[jon1959]

[QUOTE=Baloo;5558259]

When did Tan buy the club - May 2010?

I think Tan bought a 35% stake in the club in 2010 for something like £6/6.5m. TG became chairman.

Sometime later (I can't find a date online) he became the majority shareholder (i.e. owner) after buying out other major shareholders, and the rest is history!

[Baloo]

[QUOTE=jon1959;5558260]

I think Tan bought a 35% stake in the club in 2010 for something like £6/6.5m. TG became chairman.

Sometime later (I can't find a date online) he became the majority shareholder (i.e. owner) after buying out other major shareholders, and the rest is history!

OK, thanks. So unless I’m missing something according to those stats posted we averaged 20717 in 09/10 which preceded both of those events. Which is higher than several subsequent seasons.

[Jordi Culé]

Which is why it's important to be able to voice opinions.

100% agree with you in principle, it's just that personally I'm no longer that arsed with it.

The red debacle was the kick in the cock for me, it illustrated to me what the club was about and how a(pathetic)the majority of the support was about it.

Ironically, I'm probably now less arsed about it than anyone.

[the other bob wilson]

[QUOTE=Baloo;5558261]

OK, thanks. So unless I’m missing something according to those stats posted we averaged 20717 in 09/10 which preceded both of those events. Which is higher than several subsequent seasons.

I got the 19,400 odd figure by asking Google what our average league attendance was in 09/10, but my Rothmans Yearbook for that season confirms the figure of 20,717, so the point that we’re currently getting smaller crowds than we were before Tan arrived applies even more and I’d say we’ll struggle to finish this season with an average gate of higher than 20,717. Overall, I’d say it’s fair to claim that crowds have been bigger under Tan, but the trend is now definitely downwards and I’d argue that supporter morale is at its lowest now in the Tan era apart from, perhaps, during the rebrand.

[Jimmy the Jock]

The shoulder-shrugging apathy regarding 'the way it is' displayed by a large majority of football fans is precisely why it is the way it is.

Yes , sending strongly worded letter , not adhering to process .
Surely the letter should have been sent to the club , if the response was poor THEN publish and they would have a point . ( Very few would care , even then )
These guys are rebels . One of them used to be a red..
I subscribe to the trust and have done for years , ( I bought a hat in the shop once as well )if they are going to be go about their business in such a kamikaze way , I might double my subscription. Alternatively, if they need attention so bad they can’t follow simple procedures perhaps I will remove my subscription and sit on my hands as CCFC is burning .

[Dave Blue]

[QUOTE=the other bob wilson;5558267]

I got the 19,400 odd figure by asking Google what our average league attendance was in 09/10, but my Rothmans Yearbook for that season confirms the figure of 20,717, so the point that we’re currently getting smaller crowds than we were before Tan arrived applies even more and I’d say we’ll struggle to finish this season with an average gate of higher than 20,717. Overall, I’d say it’s fair to claim that crowds have been bigger under Tan, but the trend is now definitely downwards and I’d argue that supporter morale is at its lowest now in the Tan era apart from, perhaps, during the rebrand.

I’d say most were ecstatic during the first rebrand years. It wasn’t the red that pissed fans off in the end, it was losing when back in the championship.

[horse_face]

Yes , sending strongly worded letter , not adhering to process .
Surely the letter should have been sent to the club , if the response was poor THEN publish and they would have a point . ( Very few would care , even then )
These guys are rebels . One of them used to be a red..
I subscribe to the trust and have done for years , ( I bought a hat in the shop once as well )if they are going to be go about their business in such a kamikaze way , I might double my subscription. Alternatively, if they need attention so bad they can’t follow simple procedures perhaps I will remove my subscription and sit on my hands as CCFC is burning .

The issue with the club is the two blokes who make the decisions for Vinny T don’t listen to anyone. At the very least the peasants in Wales. It’s death by a thousand cuts. The board aren’t arsed, the fans aren’t arsed. Anyone who’s left doesn’t have anything better to do

[The Lone Gunman]

Apathy is not spreading. Crowds are not getting smaller. People are not drifting away.

Last night’s was the smallest crowd for a league game at the CCS since December 2016.

But, apparently, apathy is not spreading, crowds are not getting smaller and people are not drifting away…

[Nobody's Rep]

Last night’s was the smallest crowd for a league game at the CCS since December 2016.

But, apparently, apathy is not spreading, crowds are not getting smaller and people are not drifting away…

Equally the apathy isn't just reflected in people not attending - the apathy is palpable in the ground itself - people seem genuinely resigned to our fate and accepting that we are in a bad place

All the time the governance of our club are invisible and watching it dismantle from afar

It's crazy when it's their business and their reputation - its like they really don't care

[The Lone Gunman]

Equally the apathy isn't just reflected in people not attending - the apathy is palpable in the ground itself - people seem genuinely resigned to our fate and accepting that we are in a bad place

All the time the governance of our club are invisible and watching it dismantle from afar

It's crazy when it's their business and their reputation - its like they really don't care

Agree 100%, although at the final whistle last night there was genuine anger on display for the first time, with some people in the stands giving the players and management some proper stick.