Evolving or Mutating?

[truthpaste]

Shhhh, don't mention this to those convinced that Evolution points to a brighter future, City eventually stuffing Barcelona and an interface for your smartphone next to your kidneys, but it's a scientific fact that at birth children typically have 70 new genetic mutations compared to their parents. This would suggest that rather than moving towards perfection, getting stronger and brighter, we are actually degenerating!
If you somehow doubt that, imagine todays teenagers ripped away from their Smartphones, X-boxes and Just-Eat delivery and thrust onto the front line of WW1.

On another thread, Taunton Blue Genie was wondering if Bible reading Christians (yes there are a few) had any reasonable knowledge of modern Evolution?

On this thread we will explore that question...?

[truthpaste]

Science says:- "Evolution is both a fact and a theory. It is an incontrovertible fact that organisms have changed, or evolved, during the history of life on Earth. And biologists have identified and investigated mechanisms that can explain the major patterns of change"

Those like me who accept the Creators account of the origin of life have no issue with the above statement. This is for the following reasons:-

(1) We can observe changes within types of animals; some dogs have long hair so thrive better in colder climates, so adaptation comes through this and other body variations. This is known as micro-evolution or variations within a particular group.
(2) Science observes these things and like it says - "biologists have identified and investigated mechanisms that can explain the major patterns of change" - and they have. This is again micro-evolution.

None of these facts cut across one word in the Bible, as God granted all creatures DNA which is noted by those who write software this way - "DNA is complex, DNA is organized in chromatin, which is more complex than a human-made software system". This allows for speciation which CAN be observed but remains within the type of creature - ie cat type, dog type etc

However what Taunton Blue Genie and all science-only individuals dream of, is finding proof of Macro Evolution; which would allow one type of creature to develop into another type etc etc; which would be how (given enough) time, you could turn slime into a low level sea creature, then a land creature and *eventually into a brain surgeon!

*For this remarkable sequence to occur (which incidently takes far more faith than any theist like myself) you also need two other things to happen:-

(A) The production of brand new information.
(B) The organisation of that new information (ie a brain or nucleus to understand and run that new data/ information and allow it to work with your existing/ former materials).

So for science to dismiss the account given by God, the proof of macro-evolution has to be provided, as micro evolution is as far from being the answer as you can get.

[stevo]

None of these facts cut across one word in the Bible, as God granted all creatures DNA which is noted by those who write software this way - "DNA is complex, DNA is organized in chromatin, which is more complex than a human-made software system". This allows for speciation which CAN be observed but remains within the type of creature - ie cat type, dog type etc

Does the Bible mention DNA at any point?

However what Taunton Blue Genie and all science-only individuals dream of, is finding proof of Macro Evolution; which would allow one type of creature to develop into another type etc etc; which would be how (given enough) time, you could turn slime into a low level sea creature, then a land creature and *eventually into a brain surgeon!

What's your take on Neanderthals and other subfamilies of homininae?

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Shhhh, don't mention this to those convinced that Evolution points to a brighter future, City eventually stuffing Barcelona and an interface for your smartphone next to your kidneys, but it's a scientific fact that at birth children typically have 70 new genetic mutations compared to their parents. This would suggest that rather than moving towards perfection, getting stronger and brighter, we are actually degenerating!
If you somehow doubt that, imagine todays teenagers ripped away from their Smartphones, X-boxes and Just-Eat delivery and thrust onto the front line of WW1.

On another thread, Taunton Blue Genie was wondering if Bible reading Christians (yes there are a few) had any reasonable knowledge of modern Evolution?

On this thread we will explore that question...?

I can't say that I have ever heard such a dopey statement made by anyone. Have you? Or are you fabricating yet another strawman argument?

[truthpaste]

I can't say that I have ever heard such a dopey statement made by anyone. Have you? Or are you fabricating yet another strawman argument?

Well it could be said that the information age presents the last straw for evolution. You will know that science comes from the Latin and means "knowledge, awareness & understanding" - so let's hear your understanding of it and what specific knowledge leads you to trust those who have placed it in front of you?

I have presented you with the problem of each generation having more genetic mistakes than the previous one, what is your reply?

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Well it could be said that the information age presents the last straw for evolution. You will know that science comes from the Latin and means "knowledge, awareness & understanding" - so let's hear your understanding of it and what specific knowledge leads you to trust those who have placed it in front of you?

I have presented you with the problem of each generation having more genetic mistakes than the previous one, what is your reply?

I see that you avoided answering my question.

As for your question, I am no expert in DNA and I am not sure if genetic mutations are considered to be mistakes or if your assertion is true.

[truthpaste]

I see that you avoided answering my question.

As for your question, I am no expert in DNA and I am not sure if genetic mutations are considered to be mistakes or if your assertion is true.

No, I am NOT misrepresenting your chosen hope for the origin of mankind, I have exposed it at the foundational level. So don't blame me if it crumbles like an unwanted skyscaper; just examine the foundations for yourself.

You have trusted some human scientists; now check up on them.

Psalm 118:8 - it is better to trust the Lord than put confidence in man.

[ninian opinian]

Shhhh half past 3, bahhhhhhhhhh.

[Wales-Bales]

If you somehow doubt that, imagine todays teenagers ripped away from their Smartphones, X-boxes and Just-Eat delivery and thrust onto the front line of WW1.

That's called social conditioning, and somewhere between 66.6% and 80% of the population aren't even aware of it.

[truthpaste]

That's called social conditioning, and somewhere between 66.6% and 80% of the population aren't even aware of it.

Indeed, and as a society the more we CAN know about the things that really matter.....
the less we seem to know

[Taunton Blue Genie]

No, I am NOT misrepresenting your chosen hope for the origin of mankind, I have exposed it at the foundational level. So don't blame me if it crumbles like an unwanted skyscaper; just examine the foundations for yourself.

You have trusted some human scientists; now check up on them.

Psalm 118:8 - it is better to trust the Lord than put confidence in man.

Yet again you misrepresent my comments and viewpoint! I have never stated that I have such a 'hope' and have stated that I have no vested interest in what science discovers.
I really can't discuss anything with you further as you deliberately and dishonestly do the same at every turn. I'm out - as it's impossible to have a rational conversation with you without your perverse misinterpretations.

[truthpaste]

Yet again you misrepresent my comments and viewpoint! I have never stated that I have such a 'hope' and have stated that I have no vested interest in what science discovers.
I really can't discuss anything with you further as you deliberately and dishonestly do the same at every turn. I'm out - as it's impossible to have a rational conversation with you without your perverse misinterpretations.

It's impossible to have any meaningful conversation with you because like many of the people in your agnostic camp, you've given almost no thought to the position you've chosen. Silence is then the best option.

[Canton Kev]

If you somehow doubt that, imagine todays teenagers ripped away from their Smartphones, X-boxes and Just-Eat delivery and thrust onto the front line of WW1.

Were the teens of the 1910’s that got slaughtered in their ten’s of thousands by bombs, bullet and disease some sort of Rambo-esque super soldiers?

[Canton Kev]

It's impossible to have any meaningful conversation with you because like many of the people in your agnostic camp, you've given almost no thought to the position you've chosen. Silence is then the best option.

The pot is using a megaphone to call the kettle black here

[truthpaste]

The pot is using a megaphone to call the kettle black here

Very amusing. The issue is this on this subject and so many others.......

Any moron can yell "wrong, wrong, wrong!"

If you dislike someone's take on life and their views on origin, purpose and destiny. Get a robust view you can understand, stand up and defend.

Not someone else's idea (that you can't defend) off the nearest shelf.

[truthpaste]

Also found on the Justin Welby converstion but probably better to consider going forward here:-

“The best data we have are exactly what I would have predicted had I nothing to go on but the five books of Moses, the Psalms, the Bible as a whole, in that the universe appears to have order and purpose.” -
Arno Penzias, American physicist and Nobel Laureate for the discovery of the cosmic background radiation which substantiated Big Bang theory.

“In the last few years astronomy has come together so that we’re now able to tell a coherent story
[of how the universe began] …this story does not contradict God, but instead enlarges [the idea of] God.”
Joel Primack, Fellow of the American Physical Society, Professor of Physics at the University of California, Santa Cruz. He studies dark matter, particle astrophysics, cosmology and quantum field theory.

In sort: Nothing that modern science can *CONFIRM, challenges the accuracy of anything God has said in the Bible.

* this being the key word in all such 'science' claims.

[Canton Kev]

Very amusing. The issue is this on this subject and so many others.......

Any moron can yell "wrong, wrong, wrong!"

If you dislike someone's take on life and their views on origin, purpose and destiny. Get a robust view you can understand, stand up and defend.

Not someone else's idea (that you can't defend) off the nearest shelf.

Sounds like the bible, no? A collection of someone else’s stories and ideas, that doesn’t involve empirical evidence and instead relies on faith to believe (ie, can’t be defended) and commonly stored on a bookshelf.

[jon1959]

Sounds like the bible, no? A collection of someone else’s stories and ideas, that doesn’t involve empirical evidence and instead relies on faith to believe (ie, can’t be defended) and commonly stored on a bookshelf.

Has Truthpaste chucked another boomerang? Lashed out at people with a different view and smacked himself in the face? Painful!

[truthpaste]

Sounds like the bible, no? A collection of someone else’s stories and ideas, that doesn’t involve empirical evidence and instead relies on faith to believe (ie, can’t be defended) and commonly stored on a bookshelf.

Rich, coming from the evolution side of the argument that offers zero empirical evidence for the necessary proof of macro-evolution, ALSO zero evidence to prove any part of God's Account incorrect!

[jeepster]

Rich, coming from the evolution side of the argument that offers zero empirical evidence for the necessary proof of macro-evolution, ALSO zero evidence to prove any part of God's Account incorrect!

Any proof besides the very old book?

[truthpaste]

Any proof besides the very old book?

Yes, there is plenty of evidence outside the Bible to verify it's words. After all, it if is true then truth never changes, but often needs to be discovered, and on the way to finding the truth, many false flags can be found along the way.

[jeepster]

Yes, there is plenty of evidence outside the Bible to verify it's words. After all, it if is true then truth never changes, but often needs to be discovered, and on the way to finding the truth, many false flags can be found along the way.

Still no proof just a word salad.

[goats]

Shhhh, don't mention this to those convinced that Evolution points to a brighter future, City eventually stuffing Barcelona and an interface for your smartphone next to your kidneys, but it's a scientific fact that at birth children typically have 70 new genetic mutations compared to their parents. This would suggest that rather than moving towards perfection, getting stronger and brighter, we are actually degenerating!
If you somehow doubt that, imagine todays teenagers ripped away from their Smartphones, X-boxes and Just-Eat delivery and thrust onto the front line of WW1.

On another thread, Taunton Blue Genie was wondering if Bible reading Christians (yes there are a few) had any reasonable knowledge of modern Evolution?

On this thread we will explore that question...?

I’m sure they would adapt, but why would you expect them just to cope, it’s hardly the usual thing is it going over the top? I don’t think the kids back then were foaming at the mouth to go either when they knew what to expect. These days we know exactly how things pan out due to social media, the news back then was broadcast in the cinema and no doubt heavily sensored by the government of the day.
Yet again, your arguments are pointless…..took my kids away last year to a place with no wi fi or electric, they coped much better than me for 3 days….

[goats]

Has Truthpaste chucked another boomerang? Lashed out at people with a different view and smacked himself in the face? Painful!

Probably, I don’t like to judge people on the whole but all the Christian’s I’ve ever met bar the odd one were very weak mentally, almost like they just needed something to believe in to cope with life, give them a purpose….. sure it’s not easy all the time, and maybe we all have crutches we turn too ( booze, football, smoking, hookers, drugs, fishing, music, porn whatever floats yer boat) but I don’t think anyone who turns to say drinking, goes in and on about how wonderful it is….its just a book that’s not really true isn’t it?
I’m sure there might be something out there truth….but not your version. You like dinosaurs? Interesting things……

[truthpaste]

….its just a book that’s not really true isn’t it?…

With the entire internet at your disposal, you should be able to prove this before darkess.