When were the laws of the game changed?

[Tuerto]

The defender is trying to stop the game - unless the attacker is trying to buy a free kick, they’re trying to keep the ball in play.

I see it differently, the defender is protecting the ball and seeing it out. That's why i think officials allow it to happen, and more importantly, you don't see the players kicking up a fuss about it really, unless it's injury time and they're chasing a goal. There are plenty of unwritten 'Rules' in a competitive football match, and rightly so in my opinion, because the official would end up blowing his whistle every thirty seconds if they didn't exist. Every corner would result in a penalty,every deliberate contact would end up with a free kick, thus stopping the game and making it less entertaining. I believe in more power for officials to referee the game as they see fit, and for players to bend the rules as far as they can in order to get an advantage, it's not just football that equates to, but probably all levels of high level professionalism. There's nothing wrong with getting your body between the ball and the opposing player in my opinion, and the defender has absolutely no obligation in letting the attacking player have the ball, and that's accepted on the field of play.

[splott parker]

I see it differently, the defender is protecting the ball and seeing it out. That's why i think officials allow it to happen, and more importantly, you don't see the players kicking up a fuss about it really, unless it's injury time and they're chasing a goal. There are plenty of unwritten 'Rules' in a competitive football match, and rightly so in my opinion, because the official would end up blowing his whistle every thirty seconds if they didn't exist. Every corner would result in a penalty,every deliberate contact would end up with a free kick, thus stopping the game and making it less entertaining. I believe in more power for officials to referee the game as they see fit, and for players to bend the rules as far as they can in order to get an advantage, it's not just football that equates to, but probably all levels of high level professionalism. There's nothing wrong with getting your body between the ball and the opposing player in my opinion, and the defender has absolutely no obligation in letting the attacking player have the ball, and that's accepted on the field of play.

Your one sentence, ‘Every corner would end up a penalty’, why not? Perhaps it would at first but hopefully defenders would get the message that assaulting their opponent in the box would result in a spot kick. Anyone else remember that midweek League Cup tie at Anfield a few years back? Their centre back, Skrtel, was assaulting Darren Purse on every occasion, it was plain as day. If a pen had been given first off it may have curtailed him. Instead he was given carte blanche to do as he liked. It’s wrong, and that spoils the game.

[the other bob wilson]

Your one sentence, ‘Every corner would end up a penalty’, why not? Perhaps it would at first but hopefully defenders would get the message that assaulting their opponent in the box would result in a spot kick. Anyone else remember that midweek League Cup tie at Anfield a few years back? Their centre back, Skrtel, was assaulting Darren Purse on every occasion, it was plain as day. If a pen had been given first off it may have curtailed him. Instead he was given carte blanche to do as he liked. It’s wrong, and that spoils the game.

[Tuerto]

Your one sentence, ‘Every corner would end up a penalty’, why not? Perhaps it would at first but hopefully defenders would get the message that assaulting their opponent in the box would result in a spot kick. Anyone else remember that midweek League Cup tie at Anfield a few years back? Their centre back, Skrtel, was assaulting Darren Purse on every occasion, it was plain as day. If a pen had been given first off it may have curtailed him. Instead he was given carte blanche to do as he liked. It’s wrong, and that spoils the game.

The game has changed, take a look at a corner from 30 years ago compared to now, there isn't the contact, movement and numbers we see now, and there has always been contact at set pieces, it's impossible for there not to be. Do we really want a game where every little pull, push, arse into players is penalised, because i don't, it would ruin the game, and i'm not talking blatant fouls like the one we saw Tanner commit on Darling for the Goutas goal against the jacks, that should have been a free kick, but he got away with it, good, more power to Tanner. I can't recall you or Bob having a problem with that one. Consistency boys, as we say about referees.......

[Steve the Tea]

I've just watched the highlights again and froze the frame where the second goal was struck. In fact, there were no less than three City men playing the Millwall guy onside (Goutas, Siopis and Rinomhota). They were all to the keeper's right.

Glad its sorted.

StT.
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[the other bob wilson]

The game has changed, take a look at a corner from 30 years ago compared to now, there isn't the contact, movement and numbers we see now, and there has always been contact at set pieces, it's impossible for there not to be. Do we really want a game where every little pull, push, arse into players is penalised, because i don't, it would ruin the game, and i'm not talking blatant fouls like the one we saw Tanner commit on Darling for the Goutas goal against the jacks, that should have been a free kick, but he got away with it, good, more power to Tanner. I can't recall you or Bob having a problem with that one. Consistency boys, as we say about referees.......

I didn’t have a problem with Goutas’ goal because you know full well there were plenty of other fouls taking place at the same time. If referees started giving penalties every time they saw any sort of foul being committed by a defender, there’d be ructions for a while, but soon defenders would be told by managers to actually start defending rather than rely on their wrestling talent. Attackers would, of course, look to take advantage of any clampdown on defenders, but if defenders were not so intent on committing fouls themselves, instances of cheating by forwards would be a lot easier to spot.

I’ve seen defending of the type you talk about from thirty years ago being described as a lost art and I tend to agree - the modern game is better than the one I grew up with in so many ways, but I’m not sure that defending has improved much - by that I mean things like good, clean tackling, positioning and anticipation.

The defender faced with the ball slowly running out for a goal kick should have to show defensive ability in getting out of an awkward position, not just park himself in front of the opponent in a manner they wouldn’t be allowed to do in other areas of the pitch.

[LA Bluebird]

When I read debates like this I wonder how many people in favor would be on here complaining about the referee breaking up the game/not letting things flow/making it all about him if the game was actually called like they are asking for. OK, eventually players might adapt but do we really want to watch a game with a whistle every 30 seconds for a few years until it happens? Just listen to the crowds reaction when the ref takes a little bit of time to try to sort out some of the shenanigans that happen at a corner these days.

[Tuerto]

I didn’t have a problem with Goutas’ goal because you know full well there were plenty of other fouls taking place at the same time. If referees started giving penalties every time they saw any sort of foul being committed by a defender, there’d be ructions for a while, but soon defenders would be told by managers to actually start defending rather than rely on their wrestling talent. Attackers would, of course, look to take advantage of any clampdown on defenders, but if defenders were not so intent on committing fouls themselves, instances of cheating by forwards would be a lot easier to spot.

I’ve seen defending of the type you talk about from thirty years ago being described as a lost art and I tend to agree - the modern game is better than the one I grew up with in so many ways, but I’m not sure that defending has improved much - by that I mean things like good, clean tackling, positioning and anticipation.

The defender faced with the ball slowly running out for a goal kick should have to show defensive ability in getting out of an awkward position, not just park himself in front of the opponent in a manner they wouldn’t be allowed to do in other areas of the pitch.

I disagree with you on the subject matter, but that's fine, your argument is legitimate and worthy in my opinion and it makes sense, i just don't think it's achievable and we probably do see te game differently, and that's how it should be. As for defending, i tend to agree. My opinion on central defenders playing the ball out from the back has changed somewhat (Fullbacks and wingbacks have always done it) because a fair amount of them have no business being on the ball on the majority of occasions, never mind when they're being pressed. They're central defenders for a reason, they'd have started up front ot in midfield, realised that they couldn't play and ended up at the back........ That's an old gits view on it, but i'm not changing my mind.....

[the other bob wilson]

When I read debates like this I wonder how many people in favor would be on here complaining about the referee breaking up the game/not letting things flow/making it all about him if the game was actually called like they are asking for. OK, eventually players might adapt but do we really want to watch a game with a whistle every 30 seconds for a few years until it happens? Just listen to the crowds reaction when the ref takes a little bit of time to try to sort out some of the shenanigans that happen at a corner these days.

Don’t try and sort things out, just give a penalty - it would take much less than a few years for a better game to emerge if we didn’t have to go through the current farce where no one takes any notice of what the ref says when he holds up the game yet again before allowing a corner to be taken.

[Tuerto]

When I read debates like this I wonder how many people in favor would be on here complaining about the referee breaking up the game/not letting things flow/making it all about him if the game was actually called like they are asking for. OK, eventually players might adapt but do we really want to watch a game with a whistle every 30 seconds for a few years until it happens? Just listen to the crowds reaction when the ref takes a little bit of time to try to sort out some of the shenanigans that happen at a corner these days.

That's pretty much my take on it as well. And i don't mind a bit of clever fouling, but that's just me, i understand why people find that odd.

[LA Bluebird]

Don’t try and sort things out, just give a penalty - it would take much less than a few years for a better game to emerge if we didn’t have to go through the current farce where no one takes any notice of what the ref says when he holds up the game yet again before allowing a corner to be taken.

OK, so in theory then next season game one we have a game where City lose 6-4 in a game with 10 penalties and obstruction/fouling being called exactly to the rulebook, leading to fouls and stoppages being tripled and a massive decrease in open play. That's something you are perfectly fine with and more importantly you think that is something that most paying City fans want to see?

[The Lone Gunman]

When I read debates like this I wonder how many people in favor would be on here complaining about the referee breaking up the game/not letting things flow/making it all about him if the game was actually called like they are asking for. OK, eventually players might adapt but do we really want to watch a game with a whistle every 30 seconds for a few years until it happens? Just listen to the crowds reaction when the ref takes a little bit of time to try to sort out some of the shenanigans that happen at a corner these days.

You’re bang on. Fans are incredibly one-eyed these days where officials are concerned and the amount of stick referees and linesmen get at games, on forums like this and in the media is just ludicrous as far as I’m concerned.

It’s something that seems to have increased significantly in recent years. I noticed the difference at the CCS as soon as I became a season ticket holder again in 2022 after a ten-year break. Barely a challenge gets made against a City player these days without fans howling for a free kick or demanding a yellow card no matter how clean the challenge was. While it’s genuinely comical at times, it irritates me more often than not because it’s just so stupid. Meanwhile, almost every match thread will contain complaints about the officials and claims they are the worst we’ve had this season or ever.

Referees and linesmen have always been given stick, but not like it is these days. Fans seem to ignore the glaringly obvious - the fact that almost all professional players are now cheats to a greater or lesser degree. Going to ground after the slightest contact (or no contact at all), feigning injury, continual shirt pulling, blatant time wasting - they all do it, and it’s apparently considered to be OK if one of your team is the guilty party.

The officials have a genuinely thankless task. I’m amazed anyone wants to become a referee in this day and age.

[the other bob wilson]

I disagree with you on the subject matter, but that's fine, your argument is legitimate and worthy in my opinion and it makes sense, i just don't think it's achievable and we probably do see te game differently, and that's how it should be. As for defending, i tend to agree. My opinion on central defenders playing the ball out from the back has changed somewhat (Fullbacks and wingbacks have always done it) because a fair amount of them have no business being on the ball on the majority of occasions, never mind when they're being pressed. They're central defenders for a reason, they'd have started up front ot in midfield, realised that they couldn't play and ended up at the back........ That's an old gits view on it, but i'm not changing my mind.....

Agree about playing out from the back by Centre backs. I like seeing it done well and it can be very effective when it works, but how many of the ninety two sides in the four divisions are capable of doing it consistently and effectively over the course of a season? I’d say five or six maybe (and even theyd have the occasional disaster), yet it often seems like all of them think they can do it time after time in every game they play! The huge majority of those clubs would have to admit that playing out from the back using Centre backs has been counter productive if they carried out a truly objective “audit” of its use through the course of a season.

If Middlesbrough lose out on a play off spot by a point come the end of the season, they can put it down to the farcical winning goal they conceded on Saturday on the alter of the hallowed playing out from the back.

https://www.skysports.com/football/v...hip-highlights

[splott parker]

I was watching Bridgend St and our ‘keeper had it in his head that he should be short passing to his defenders until one extremely loudly shouted at him ‘F*ck Off’

[splott parker]

The game has changed, take a look at a corner from 30 years ago compared to now, there isn't the contact, movement and numbers we see now, and there has always been contact at set pieces, it's impossible for there not to be. Do we really want a game where every little pull, push, arse into players is penalised, because i don't, it would ruin the game, and i'm not talking blatant fouls like the one we saw Tanner commit on Darling for the Goutas goal against the jacks, that should have been a free kick, but he got away with it, good, more power to Tanner. I can't recall you or Bob having a problem with that one. Consistency boys, as we say about referees.......

The laws on fouling, I’m sure, haven’t been changed, tolerance has but the offence hasn’t, mores the pity.

[splott parker]

You’re bang on. Fans are incredibly one-eyed these days where officials are concerned and the amount of stick referees and linesmen get at games, on forums like this and in the media is just ludicrous as far as I’m concerned.

It’s something that seems to have increased significantly in recent years. I noticed the difference at the CCS as soon as I became a season ticket holder again in 2022 after a ten-year break. Barely a challenge gets made against a City player these days without fans howling for a free kick or demanding a yellow card no matter how clean the challenge was. While it’s genuinely comical at times, it irritates me more often than not because it’s just so stupid. Meanwhile, almost every match thread will contain complaints about the officials and claims they are the worst we’ve had this season or ever.

Referees and linesmen have always been given stick, but not like it is these days. Fans seem to ignore the glaringly obvious - the fact that almost all professional players are now cheats to a greater or lesser degree. Going to ground after the slightest contact (or no contact at all), feigning injury, continual shirt pulling, blatant time wasting - they all do it, and it’s apparently considered to be OK if one of your team is the guilty party.

The officials have a genuinely thankless task. I’m amazed anyone wants to become a referee in this day and age.

I’m not one eyed on the ‘fouling in the box’ thing. My heart is in my mouth when the opposition has a corner and our lot, Ng, I’m looking at you, are up to it and I’d have no qualms whatsoever should a spot kick be awarded.

[the other bob wilson]

OK, so in theory then next season game one we have a game where City lose 6-4 in a game with 10 penalties and obstruction/fouling being called exactly to the rulebook, leading to fouls and stoppages being tripled and a massive decrease in open play. That's something you are perfectly fine with and more importantly you think that is something that most paying City fans want to see?

Yes, if it stops what passes for defending at set pieces these days and, as I keep on saying, clubs would soon get wind of what’s happening and stop the wrestlemania stuff.

[splott parker]

Yes, if it stops what passes for defending at set pieces these days and, as I keep on saying, clubs would soon get wind of what’s happening and stop the wrestlemania stuff.

The thing is the likes of you and I aren’t asking for a law change we’re asking for a law to be adhered to, a law that if broken seems to be penalised anywhere else on the pitch.

[Tuerto]

The thing is the likes of you and I aren’t asking for a law change we’re asking for a law to be adhered to, a law that if broken seems to be penalised anywhere else on the pitch.

You've sort of answered your own question, where on the pitch would you have so many players condensed into such a small area (Defending a 1-0 lead under Warnock doesn't count) I know that it's out of hand, but the two examples in this thread happen at unique moments during a game and aren't generally officiated in the same way general play is.

[BLUEAWAY TOO]

Just been roused from my slumber by a comment at the Fulham v Man United game that it wasn’t a foul because the player grabbing hold of another player’s arm didn’t have hold of it for long enough . A few hours earlier while watching Villa v West Ham, Jamie Carragher said it wasn’t a penalty because the player grabbing an opponent’s shirt did not have hold of it for long enough.

When were the laws of the game amended to read “no offence will have been committed if the player grabbing hold of an opponent or their shirt does not do so for more than x amount of seconds”?

The man handling at set pieces is getting worse and is being referred to varying standards that make it a farce.

[Tuerto]

Here's another one. That 6 seconds thing for goalkeepers, is it still in existence? If so, no referee wants to touch it, and i don't blame them, especially at the stage of a game the keeper starts to do it, from about 70 minutes onwards, under the cosh, too much at stake, managers, coaches, arsehole TV pundits and big baby football fans crying all over the internet and phoning Talksport, i don't blame them. And the law is just telling keepers not to take the piss, that's how the game should be, it's not Tennis or golf.

[splott parker]

You've sort of answered your own question, where on the pitch would you have so many players condensed into such a small area (Defending a 1-0 lead under Warnock doesn't count) I know that it's out of hand, but the two examples in this thread happen at unique moments during a game and aren't generally officiated in the same way general play is.

They haven’t got to grab bodies and pull shirts etc though. I think natural buffeting of bodies is inevitable but when hands start grabbing others around the waist etc, the ref needs to step in. Which, very often, he does, wags a finger, then it starts again from the same corner, Ridiculous.

[LA Bluebird]

So then another fun thought experiment, when multiple players from both teams do it (as noted above in the Goutas Swansea example) how do you officiate that? Do we pause for 5 minutes while VAR goes frame by frame to decide who did it first?

[Dave Blue]

When I read debates like this I wonder how many people in favor would be on here complaining about the referee breaking up the game/not letting things flow/making it all about him if the game was actually called like they are asking for. OK, eventually players might adapt but do we really want to watch a game with a whistle every 30 seconds for a few years until it happens? Just listen to the crowds reaction when the ref takes a little bit of time to try to sort out some of the shenanigans that happen at a corner these days.

One of the reasons I feel the crowd gets irritated is because they know that when the actual corner comes over they will ignore everything they have just spent 2 minutes lecturing them all about.

[Dave Blue]

Your one sentence, ‘Every corner would end up a penalty’, why not? Perhaps it would at first but hopefully defenders would get the message that assaulting their opponent in the box would result in a spot kick. Anyone else remember that midweek League Cup tie at Anfield a few years back? Their centre back, Skrtel, was assaulting Darren Purse on every occasion, it was plain as day. If a pen had been given first off it may have curtailed him. Instead he was given carte blanche to do as he liked. It’s wrong, and that spoils the game.

That was Fraser Campbell you are thinking of in the famous don’t sack Malky match. We lost 3-1 but should have had at least 3 penalties