Reply With QuoteTWGL1 started the war ?Originally Posted by Rjk
Christ
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The poll was badly constructed.
TWGL1 started the war ?
Christ
Regarding your comment about 'what happens if we don't seek peace'.
The word 'we' is rather nebulous in this context. UK, European nations and Ukraine seem to have been sidelined while the imbecilic Trump seems to swallow whole the propaganda from Russia.
I mean we as a global community. Everyone seems pretty confident that if the war ends then an emboldened Putin will invade Estonia or somewhere else, but we have to consider what might happen if it continues too, and not just the cost in terms of people's lives, which is certainly measured in the hundreds of thousands so far.
I think everyone is obsessed with Trump's involvement and probably overlooking the fact that every peace settlement ends in giving some concessions to people who definitely do not deserve it, in this case Putin. The war ends that way or it ends in destruction of one or both sides, which seems unlikely and also undesirable. But the alternative to trying for peace is what? Trump is president for four years. We can't change that and I think seeing what happens in this case is not entirely unreasonable and either way is the only option. What are we going to do? March on Whitehall demanding war? Not going to happen
I think you are missing the point entirely and went off at tangent.
After the US overthrew Yanukovych together with right wing ukrainian military forces in 2014
Which led to negotiations between the ethnic Russians in the east of Ukraine and this new regime in Kiev led to the Minsk II agreement
The Minsk II agreement was voted by the UN Security Council unanimously. It was signed by the government of Ukraine. It was guaranteed by Germany and France.
So why did the Minsk II treaty fail in 2015 ?
There s lots of interoperation of why depending who you believe but my guess is USA has alot to answer for
so many men and women gone from both sides what a waste of human life
The idea that Ukraine started this war is beyond mere misinformation - it is insanity. It all started with a so-called Russian military exercise near the Ukranian border in the north followed by an invasion force heading directly to Kiev, the city which was apparently going to surrender within 3 days.
When was this ?
at the start of the war
Interesting that you have to ask this. As I said in another thread a lot of people seem to have forgotten how it all started. It was an obvious deception by Russia, pretending that it was just a military exercise!
If you can give me a date then perhaps I could oblige with a reply , if your talking as recently as 2022 when the war became newsworthy then youre incorrect
What a waste…for no reason at all really. Always something to do with the yanks meddling though….
How long before the CIA are forced to shut Trump up forever in the JFK way?
Land disputes never end.
This wasn't a difficult question by any means, and most people have been able to grasp that.
One day there wasn't a war and the next day there was a war - and what happened to change that status?
Russia invaded Ukraine.
I'm not asking about the geopolitical situation in the buildup to the war, just who started it.
It's very interesting at the mental gymnastics that some people are prepared to go in order to give Vladimir Putin - a brutal murderous dictator - a free pass over this. Like in some way their actions were inevitable
There are some very scary people out there, extreme views, always been present but never had such a platform. Worlds a bit messed up since Covid it seems….two blokes that shoukd probably been in jail are currently running the show, or at least, they think they are.
I don’t think anybody is giving anyone a free pass , and there are plenty of murderous dictators that the UK happily deal with in business and politics daily without any regard to that regimes citizens and their wellbeing. You can’t just call out one and not the other.
I think the proxy war is more complicated than what it seems.
Cheers for that
I think Putin is misunderstood
Just like Trump
And Ghengis Khan
And Harold Shipman
I had to look it up as time flies does it not! This is a quote from Wikipedia:
In March and April 2021, prior to the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, the Russian Armed Forces began massing thousands of personnel and military equipment near Russia's border with Ukraine and in Crimea, representing the largest mobilisation since the illegal annexation of Crimea in 2014.[37][38] This precipitated an international crisis due to concerns over a potential invasion. Satellite imagery showed movements of armour, missiles, and heavy weaponry towards the border.[39][40] The troops were partially withdrawn by June 2021,[41] though the infrastructure was left in place. A second build-up began in October 2021, this time with more soldiers and with deployments on new fronts; by December over 100,000 Russian troops were massed around Ukraine on three sides, including Belarus from the north and Crimea from the south.[42] Despite the Russian military build-ups, Russian officials from November 2021 to 20 February 2022 repeatedly denied that Russia had plans to invade Ukraine.[43][44
The sentence in red is the key sentence.
Three now who think Ukraine started the war (emphasis on the word started); it makes you wonder why they werent saying that before Trump did?
Did anyone care who started it prior to when it was announced as the current thing straight after Covid ? The BBC prior to this date ran a few documentaries regarding nazi army regiments and were very active in calling out far right groups until the narrative shifted.
It looks like the narrative will change again and people will continue to ignore the facts.
There is some very disturbing images and videos circulating around social media ( so disturbing that would not want to post on here ) that paints a negative picture of Ukraine
What point are you trying to make? Russia invaded Ukraine because Ukraine aren't very nice and that makes it okay? It just sounds like an excuse, Ukraine is a country with a border, Russia marched over the border, Russia started the war.
Is the UK perfect? If Russia invaded the UK tomorrow, would that war have started because of russian aggression or because we aren't perfect, and therefore justified?
Wow. That settles it then. It seems that the Russians are totally absolved of invading another nation state, bombing to oblivion numerous Ukrainian cities, occupying 20% of Ukraine, wanting the country to be wiped off the face of the map and killing masses of civilians. Thanks for educating us with your very balanced view regarding both of the warring parties.
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