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This years young signings and loans have mostly been an improvement, although we are now lacking experienced leaders on the pitch.
RamseyOriginally Posted by North Cardiff Blue
Ralls
Chambers
Goutas
NG
O Dowda
El Ghazi
Robinson
Rhino
To name a few.
Plenty of experience and leaders within the squad. Its hardly the days of Mad Mick having to fill the first team dressing room with under 21 players.
Older players but not leaders in the Morrison, Purse, Hudson, Marshall or Gunnarrson mold, maybe Ramsey but he's a quieter style, and Chambers could develop into a leader possibly.
With good reason
Agreed, the tone for 17/18 was set by us winning our first five games, the tone for this season was set by one point from our first seven games - we were always going to be down near the bottom of the table for the duration after that because all youre doing during your good runs is trying to make up lost ground.
You will never accept that for 6 months of last season we weren't close to top half form and that we only finished 12th because of the good start we made. Once you realise this, the rest fits into place. Fortunate to finish 12th, the slump at the start of the season was expected, not just because of the opposition, but because we were garbage.
Ramsey has been credited as lifting standards, Ralls is spoken about by Peltier and Morrison (and your best mate Bulut) as a proper leader, Morrison also spoke at what a big influence Robinson is.
We've got experience, we've got youth, we've got 25 year olds. We're not very good as only a handful of the last 26 signings Deboys has made has actually improved the first XI
What is noticeable about the run at the start of the 17/18 season is that two of those games were against Wolves and Villa, two other sides who finishes in the top 4. We played both of those off the park.
The tone was set this season by the opening games, but it could also be added that, instead of those defeats showing signs of promise, we looked every bit a side heading for the drop. It wasn't just the points deficit that was a problem - it was performances, mindset, all of which were wrong. I look back on those games and think we'd have struggled.to get anything from those if we'd have played most of the bottom half. I dread to think how bad things would be now if Bulut had been given a few more games to save himself.
If the squad was good enough though we'd have climbed the table.
Weren't Forest rooted to the bottom when Cooper came in.?
The issue is a weak squad , weak managerial set up and appalling decision making yet again by those running the club.
It's a big if but if we can survive we have a group of decent young players.
If we can improve the managerial set up and replace a number of the senior pros at the club with better quality. - Goutas , Rino , Chambers , El Ghazi , Turnbull , Willock- then I think we can have a decent future.
Yes, that's it in a nutshell. Better players, better manager. Simple, really.
Some think the squad is ok and it's the manager's fault, but does anyone think a Steve Cooper-esque boss would have had us in the top half? Not a chance.
Its an unknown though, would a different manager played the same players, same formation?
Would he have been able to motivate the current squad any better?
Would we have seen more youngsters given a chance sooner?
Would he have been working on the training ground on better defensive tactics?
Would he have settled for a draw rather than go all out to win the game on Saturday?
We dont know, my view is that not too many other clubs went for the option of employing a manager who had a CV that read played 7 lost 5 at Orient and subsequently saw them relegated
Or employing a forward coach who his last club let him go in March
I get that everyone has to start somewhere, but imho, this job needs a manager who has been a success, with experience
Its only an opinion, not a fact!
And where would this hypothetical manager get this squad? Playoffs?
I'll ask you a question: do you believe the squads at Millwall, Sheffield Wednesday, QPR, Swansea or Preston are any better than ours?
Our squad is a mixture of below average [Championship standard] players, and average standard players. Fundamentally a squad like that is going to struggle with any manager.
I have no idea. I do know that our form has been virtually the same as Swansea, Preston and QPR since Bulut was sacked. I also didn't realise we're 8th top scorers in the Championship since Bulut was booted out.
What I do believe is that we have a woeful defence that keeps making cock ups and consists of players I doubt would interest many Championship clubs and, for a number of improvements made over the last few months, it's our defensive frailty that keeps being a problem. I don't see a Warnock-type manager coming in and suddenly making our back 4 lots stronger, simply because of the players we have. I don't know if the clubs you mention have worse defenders than us, but 130 goals conceded in 2 seasons kind of demonstrates a big problem.
The perfect scenario in which a novice management and coaching set-up should thrive, obviously...
The season so far can be split into five distinct segments:
0 wins in 7 games
4 wins in 6 games
0 wins in 9 games
3 wins in 7 games
1 win in 7 games
I'm not sure what shows us exactly, but I do think it gives lie to the idea that the awful start to the campaign is the main reason for our current league position.
I dont know, but I think its likely that we would be in a better position than 4 wins in 23 games
OK I know we have some experience you think they are leaders like Morrison, Hudson, Marshall and Gunnarson do you?
Fair enough we can disagree.
I accept all that, and that we finished 12th with a weaker squad over a full season, can you?
Yes a tough start, some said it was standard fixtures
He would have been miles better, everyone knows that
Mid-table plus, even after a bad start, and then playoffs next season would be a reasonable expectation.
We leak goals like a sieve, and a decent manager would sort that out in the first training session. Can't you remember what Warnock did in a few weeks?
It means if we get a tough set of fixtures, like the first six against teams in the top half, (at the time) we lose most and draw a few. It also means we are a confidence team that go on terrible and OK runs and that we lack leadership on the pitch and probably in the dug out.
It cannot be denied that, if we'd got 6 more points from those opening 7 games, we would be breathing a little more easily.
Ok. I'm not convinced. Convince me
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