The Donald Trump thread

[Dorcus]

FFS.

Comparing the murder of hundreds of opponents to high ranking officials losing their jobs under a new head of state?

Hard to even know where to begin with this stuff.

You know where to begin...stop gaslighting!

[JamesWales]

You know where to begin...stop gaslighting!

Okay, breath.

Firing members of a national security team is not the same as murdering hundreds of political rivals in cold whilst simultaneously closing down the judiciary and banning rival parties, putting gays, social democrats, conservatives and priests in prison and drawing up plans to wipe the Jewish race off the map of Europe. Context matters.

Look, Biden did similar in 2001.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...council-478156

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...-boards-510526

Few things annoy me more than totally inappropriate comparisons to the Nazis and world war two. Whether it's people on the right thinking Boris is some kind of Churchill figure during lockdown or people on the left thinking nearly everything they don't like is some mystical reimagining of 1930s Germany.

I honestly think it's unbelievable disrespectful of victims.

[Rjk]

Okay, breath.

Firing members of a national security team is not the same as murdering hundreds of political rivals in cold whilst simultaneously closing down the judiciary and banning rival parties, putting gays, social democrats, conservatives and priests in prison and drawing up plans to wipe the Jewish race off the map of Europe. Context matters.

Look, Biden did similar in 2001.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...council-478156

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...-boards-510526

Few things annoy me more than totally inappropriate comparisons to the Nazis and world war two. Whether it's people on the right thinking Boris is some kind of Churchill figure during lockdown or people on the left thinking nearly everything they don't like is some mystical reimagining of 1930s Germany.

I honestly think it's unbelievable disrespectful of victims.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_..._Knives_(1962)

[JamesWales]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_..._Knives_(1962)

Except I don't think people were seriously comparing Harold Macmillan's Govt to the Nazis were they? Same as one can refer to "being in the trenches" or "like the charge of the light brigade". If it's in the context of constant references to the Nazis / WW1 or whatever then it's quite different

As the article says, the name was used mockingly so if people are not seriously comparing the current US administration to them then that's fine too! If they are, it's ridiculous!

Perhaps people were just comparing the sacking of advisors to that well known event in 1962 in the UK govt after all?

[jon1959]

It's not pearl clutching. It's pointing out it's a stupid analogy and offensive to the victims of fascism to label any such conflict (in this case firing a senior advisor) as remotely comparable.

It's beyond ridiculous and makes any sensible discussion of what is quite a statement and newsworthy sacking totally impossible.

The 'victims of fascism' in 1934 were fascists!

But is the 'stupid analogy' with Ernst Rohm or with Selwyn Lloyd?

As Rjk has helpfully pointed out to you the phrase 'night of the long knives' has a long and varied history and is not just about the murder of brownshirt thugs, but of any major purge within a single party or administration.

My problem with the phrase is that it is not a 'night' - the Trump purge (which is of a totally different scale from previous Presidents) has been rolling for months and shows little sign of slowing down. As long as there are government employees who are not yes men or women, who are not sycophants, who have a sentimental attachment to the law and constitution, the season of the long knives will continue.

[Dorcus]

Okay, breath.

Firing members of a national security team is not the same as murdering hundreds of political rivals in cold whilst simultaneously closing down the judiciary and banning rival parties, putting gays, social democrats, conservatives and priests in prison and drawing up plans to wipe the Jewish race off the map of Europe. Context matters.

Look, Biden did similar in 2001.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...council-478156

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...-boards-510526

Few things annoy me more than totally inappropriate comparisons to the Nazis and world war two. Whether it's people on the right thinking Boris is some kind of Churchill figure during lockdown or people on the left thinking nearly everything they don't like is some mystical reimagining of 1930s Germany.

I honestly think it's unbelievable disrespectful of victims.

It's not about what does or doesn't annoy you. You and your weird beliefs are irrelevant

[jon1959]

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/p...ing-reshuffles

'Nights of the long knives: Eight staggering reshuffles....'

[jon1959]

Will be very interesting to see what happens to the markets tomorrow. Today was a bloodbath but that does happen.

Two days in a row is something else.

IT'S SOMETHING ELSE!

Stocks tumble into bear territory

14:54

Breaking

The inital falls across the three main US indexes has already deepened. The Nasdaq is now down 3.3%, the S&P 500 is 3.1% lower and the Dow Jones is off 2.7%.

Are we in "crash" territory yet? By one measure, the Nasdaq is in what traders traditionally call "bear" territory which means that it is trading 20% lower than its most recent peak.

That index, which tracks lots of technology companies, it is now trading 20% below a high it reached in December.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cvg52gjwg91t

[Wales-Bales]

no

Which ones were they then?

[Wales-Bales]

Well, it’s entirely predictable that you’ll say it is.

They said they were going to rebalance the economy towards the workers and US based production, hence the stock market takes a hit, or have I got my rocket science all wrong?

[jon1959]

Visit Canada.jpg

[the other bob wilson]

They said they were going to rebalance the economy towards the workers and US based production, hence the stock market takes a hit, or have I got my rocket science all wrong?

Yes, they say a lot of things don’t they - in the case of the main man, what he says is, very occasionally, the truth!

[Wales-Bales]

I have read widely and deeply around this issue for the last 11 minutes, and I have concluded they were sacked because they thought Trump is a twat and MAGA is a dangerous reactionary movement represented by loons who have the President's ear like Laura Loomer.

If they thought the same about Vladimir Putin, that is as close as you will get to your Ukraine-Russia war speculation.

Apologies, it must have been somebody else's boots that were on the ground then.

[Wales-Bales]

IT'S SOMETHING ELSE!

The beginning of the end for the globalists? How does it work without America?

[JamesWales]

IT'S SOMETHING ELSE!

Stocks tumble into bear territory

14:54

Breaking

The inital falls across the three main US indexes has already deepened. The Nasdaq is now down 3.3%, the S&P 500 is 3.1% lower and the Dow Jones is off 2.7%.

Are we in "crash" territory yet? By one measure, the Nasdaq is in what traders traditionally call "bear" territory which means that it is trading 20% lower than its most recent peak.

That index, which tracks lots of technology companies, it is now trading 20% below a high it reached in December.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cvg52gjwg91t

Indeed! Although the days trading has only just begun of course..will quite possibly get lower

[JamesWales]

It's not about what does or doesn't annoy you. You and your weird beliefs are irrelevant

It's as much to do with me finding your Nazi references ignorant as it is to do with you mistaking a fairly common occurrence with some historically significant horrific event 👍

[JamesWales]

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/p...ing-reshuffles

'Nights of the long knives: Eight staggering reshuffles....'

Phew!

There was me thinking people on here were hysterically comparing a fairly common event related to the US president with the Nazi era. That would never happen, but thanks for clarifying!

[Dorcus]

It's as much to do with me finding your Nazi references ignorant as it is to do with you mistaking a fairly common occurrence with some historically significant horrific event 👍

It's more to do with your silly obsession methinks and your refusal to condemn facsism

[Canton Kev]

The tariffs are reciprocal. What part of reciprocal don't you understand?

They’re not though. Keep up.

[JamesWales]

It's more to do with your silly obsession methinks and your refusal to condemn facsism

Id like to say that's the silliest thing you've said all day, but it's only the silliest thing you've said in the last half hour!

Of course, when people compare any old event that may be controversial, distasteful or against their wishes to Nazi Germany, you do not highlight fascism you merely trivialize it. Fascism is one of the most horrific ideologies in history (there's your condemnation) and the Nazi's were the most evil regime in human history. Me objecting to the casual use of them as references to modern day America (particularly the firing of a civil servant) is perfectly reasonable and prevents the word being entirely devalued. There are far better words and references to use!

[Dorcus]

It's as much to do with me finding your Nazi references ignorant as it is to do with you mistaking a fairly common occurrence with some historically significant horrific event 👍

Id like to say that's the silliest thing you've said all day, but it's only the silliest thing you've said in the last half hour!

Of course, when people compare any old event that may be controversial, distasteful or against their wishes to Nazi Germany, you do not highlight fascism you merely trivialize it. Fascism is one of the most horrific ideologies in history (there's your condemnation) and the Nazi's were the most evil regime in human history. Me objecting to the casual use of them as references to modern day America (particularly the firing of a civil servant) is perfectly reasonable and prevents the word being entirely devalued. There are far better words and references to use!

If you say it's silly then I know it's certainly not. It means you're shitting your pants

[JamesWales]

If you say it's silly then I know it's certainly not. It means you're shitting your pants

Id like to say that's the silliest thing you've said in the last half hour, but it's just the silliest thing you've said in the last five minutes! 😘

[Wales-Bales]

They’re not though. Keep up.

If a country lowers their own tariffs they will get a lower tariff in return.

[Rjk]

Some of the more interesting things I've seen on these new tariffs are trying to figure out how they've been worked out - it seems a little bit haphazard.

they've calculated the trade deficit with each country or region, divided by the total amount of imports and divided by 2 to get the new tarrifs.

With a minimum figure of 10%.
Only based on goods - not services.

Nothing to do with what the tarrifs are applied on the US by those other countries, just purely based on trade deficit. So not entirely sure how they are supposed to be reciprocal.

[Rjk]

If a country lowers their own tariffs they will get a lower tariff in return.

no they wont