Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
No that's bullshit

We know that the issue needs to be dealt with

It's the fact that starmer is chasing lost votes whilst also doing very little that's the problem

I was embarrassed by him and Cooper dancing around the subject as much as anyone
I just have no time for anyone who focuses more on language than action/outcomes, essentially the nimbys of politics, just getting in the way of anything actually happening. That isn't to say there isn't a point where language can cross the line, but that line is pretty high for me. Loads of things have been stated about Starmer's speech in this thread that a) couldn't be backed up by direct quotes and b) don't matter anyway. What matters is the right outcome, which everyone is going to have a different opinion on but needs to include all of the things being touched upon here. The point of my question was echoing what I said in a different thread, politics is essentially about picking a point on a line - infinite immigration is clearly bad for the UK, infinite emigration (i.e. just everybody leaving) is clearly bad for the UK, so the right outcome is somewhere in the middle and everyone will disagree with where it is and why.

Same with WFA - universal is practically impossible to justify, giving it to nobody is pretty hard to justify so the answer is somewhere in the middle. Add in the fact that basing it on age kind of removes the argument that it is about need, it becomes a very complex discussion about something that looks simple. Yet almost everything I read about it, presents it as a simple choice.