Starmer being compared to Enoch Powell now.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

My parents weren’t “greedy selfish gits”. Yes, they were lucky because in 1976 (under a Labour Government and I’m pretty sure a Labour council in Cardiff) my father being made redundant by British Rail coincided with an offer from the council that gave them a chance to buy the council house they were renting for a sum they would never have been able to afford without the redundancy money. There was someone from my family living in that house for the next 42 years until I moved up here and in the block of six houses we lived in three other families took up the offer - one of them were still there when I left and the other two stayed until the parents had passed away some thirty odd years after they’d bought their houses.

None of those families were rich, they just took advantage of what they thought was a generous offer from the council. My father voted Labour all of his life and my mother was a Tory who switched to Labour when she was about thirty after hearing Harold MacMillan tell her she’d never had it so good - they’ll be turning in their graves at being described as being “as bad as Thatcher.”

You can be a Labour voter and still tread water

I am never going to support RTB

A council house should go back to the council

That's it

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I wouldn't blame anyone who took advantage of Right To Buy - the fault lies with those who invented and implemented the policy.

But I did know a lot of Council tenants who were proud of being tenants (saw it as a privilege and a right) and refused on political and social grounds to buy their homes. They were a minority. Most would just consider the advantages or disadvantages for themselves and their immediate family.

Good to be reminded that Thatcher didn't invent Right To Buy. It started in 1936; expanded a bit in the late 1950s and 1960s; grew a bit more in the early and mid 1970s (much of that under a Labour Government) but remained small scale and limited until Thatcher turned a small rumble into an earthquake after 1980.

Those that took it up are part of the problem I am afraid

Either there are principles to stick by or there isn't

[the other bob wilson]

I wouldn't blame anyone who took advantage of Right To Buy - the fault lies with those who invented and implemented the policy.

But I did know a lot of Council tenants who were proud of being tenants (saw it as a privilege and a right) and refused on political and social grounds to buy their homes. They were a minority. Most would just consider the advantages or disadvantages for themselves and their immediate family.

Good to be reminded that Thatcher didn't invent Right To Buy. It started in 1936; expanded a bit in the late 1950s and 1960s; grew a bit more in the early and mid 1970s (much of that under a Labour Government) but remained small scale and limited until Thatcher turned a small rumble into an earthquake after 1980.

I was about twenty when my parents bought their house and was quite political for my age, but I can’t recall conversations at the time about declining the offer on political and social grounds and, from what I heard those who did not take up the offer did so only because they couldn’t afford it. Maybe that was down to the circles i moved in, but it was only six or seven years later under Thatcher that I can remember it becoming an issue.

[stevo]

Interesting to note that they didn't automatically turn to Reform either.

Part of the reason is that they weren't likely to win seats. The same with the Greens and to a lesser extent Lib Dems, Plaid etc.

Are you saying that people only vote for candidates/parties that they think are likely to win? If that's true, it's no wonder we're f*cked.

[JamesWales]

Are you saying that people only vote for candidates/parties that they think are likely to win? If that's true, it's no wonder we're f*cked.

100%! The concept of a wasted vote is very established. Loads will vote X to get Y out etc.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Yesterday both labour and Plaid were absolutely battered by reform in a council election in Carmarthenshire

Low turnout at 33 percent but reform polled 42 percent of the vote

I think everyone is sleepwalking

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Are you saying that people only vote for candidates/parties that they think are likely to win? If that's true, it's no wonder we're f*cked.

PR would be great for representing the voting public right across the spectrum

The worrying thing as far as I am concerned is that even in Wales around 30 percent .....possibly more .....support reform

JW as official spokesman can tell us why

[Wales-Bales]

Yesterday both labour and Plaid were absolutely battered by reform in a council election in Carmarthenshire

Low turnout at 33 percent but reform polled 42 percent of the vote

I think everyone is sleepwalking

Either that or they are incredibly pissed off.

[the other bob wilson]

You can be a Labour voter and still tread water

I am never going to support RTB

A council house should go back to the council

That's it

That’s it, Sludge has spoken - end of story. What does “you can be a Labour voter and still tread water” and “a council house should go back to the council” mean? My parents didn’t offer to buy the house off the council, the council made the decision to offer them the chance to buy it, why should they get it back again after doing that?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

That’s it, Sludge has spoken - end of story. What does “you can be a Labour voter and still tread water” and “a council house should go back to the council” mean? My parents didn’t offer to buy the house off the council, the council made the decision to offer them the chance to buy it, why should they get it back again after doing that?

They didn't have to buy the house , they chose to buy it

My view is that council houses should never be up for sale and those offered them should refuse to buy them

Then , when they pass on , the house goes back to the council to offer another person or persons low rent housing

Thus we have a supply of housing for those who need it at low rented cost

If houses are sold they are lost forever and mostly never replaced

The individual circumstances of why people buy council homes are irrelevant

It's as simple as that

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Either that or they are incredibly pissed off.

If you are voting reform for that reason that's up to you

I would never vote for that kind of party and that's my choice too

[Wales-Bales]

If you are voting reform for that reason that's up to you

I would never vote for that kind of party and that's my choice too

The last time I voted was in 1997 for the Cool Britannia party!

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

The last time I voted was in 1997 for the Cool Britannia party!

I find that very difficult to believe

[Dorcus]

Either that or they are incredibly pissed off.

Or thick

[Eric Cartman]

This is such a ridiculous overreach and a straw man argument. Why are you talking about union jack t shirts? 😂

There are a tonne of issues that cause any larger problem such as the housing crisis. That's true. Divorce rates, economic changes, growth of universities, many other things too. No one denies it. The problem here is that some of you are unable (presumably ideologically so) to acknowledge that the massive increase in demand (which all comes from people) is not intrinsincly linked to a massive increase in population which is overwhelmingly derived from high immigration which is on a scale absolutely incomparable to the 80s and 90s which with respect is an era where your politics seemed to stop.

We would probably agree on many things. The need for more social housing, the need for regulation, the need to end build to let, the need to severely restrict air BnB, and many other factors. But until you address the big cause of the spike in demand you are pissing in the wind. And it's other people (not you) getting the piss in their faces through huge rents btw, although we are all paying a lot of their housing benefit collectively too.

The problem with you and Jon just talking about RTB is that while you are right in that i removed nearly a million from the social housing stock (which is bad) it also removed millions from the demand side (which is good). If those houses were back in the social housing mix they would instantly be filled by the people who currently live in them. It's a transfer of ownership that happened. It didn't impact supply and demand, aside from not being used to build new social housing, which I do entirely agree with you on.

It didn't impact supply except the supply bit then?

Definitely true that the UK was going to see increased demand through population growth but RTB has directly impacted the amount of houses being built, which is a massive problem. Rent depends on supply/demand not cost and through a time of increased demand we have deliberately decreased supply. If social housing was accessible for more people then it feels to me like it would likely affect the prices of private rentals, yes some would leave the stock as leveraged landlords become unprofitable at a certain price point but those with the means to charge less, would.

My previous landlord was a decent guy, my rent went up maybe 5% over 3 years from 2021-2024, I think I was booted out for one reason and one reason only, if section 21 was scrapped then he would need to sell the property with me in it. I was down for work a few weeks ago and it's still sitting empty, his sale fell through and it's back on the market. Tbf it's a weird little 1 bed house so a bit niche but whatever advice he took about the impending doom has cost him 8/9 grand or so.

[Eric Cartman]

Give it a rest you fabian

You are too old to have not grown up by now.

[JamesWales]

It didn't impact supply except the supply bit then?

Definitely true that the UK was going to see increased demand through population growth but RTB has directly impacted the amount of houses being built, which is a massive problem. Rent depends on supply/demand not cost and through a time of increased demand we have deliberately decreased supply. If social housing was accessible for more people then it feels to me like it would likely affect the prices of private rentals, yes some would leave the stock as leveraged landlords become unprofitable at a certain price point but those with the means to charge less, would.

My previous landlord was a decent guy, my rent went up maybe 5% over 3 years from 2021-2024, I think I was booted out for one reason and one reason only, if section 21 was scrapped then he would need to sell the property with me in it. I was down for work a few weeks ago and it's still sitting empty, his sale fell through and it's back on the market. Tbf it's a weird little 1 bed house so a bit niche but whatever advice he took about the impending doom has cost him 8/9 grand or so.

No I mean it didn't impact supply in the sense that the receipts (which wouldn't have existed if they weren't sold) were not used to build new homes, which they should have done. But the basic principle of removing a million odd homes doesn't mean a million were lost as dwellings. If RTB hadnt happened, they wouldn't have been freed up. They would still be occupied by the people who bought them.

Irrespective, I don't dispute it's an ingredient in the foul tasting housing crisis cake. It's just not the biggest and that is the massive spike in demand that impacts all sectors.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

You are too old to have not grown up by now.

Same to you

All we are getting from you is support of these right wing labour policies which are being delivered like a student sixth form political economy lecture class

The real world is that Labour are in serious trouble yet are coming up with nothing to keep even their traditional voting base on side

You sound like a suit from a focus group and all the intellectual guff is not only boring , it's getting us nowhere

You carry on , I am not interested in all the pseudo debates , it's time for heads to roll

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

No I mean it didn't impact supply in the sense that the receipts (which wouldn't have existed if they weren't sold) were not used to build new homes, which they should have done. But the basic principle of removing a million odd homes doesn't mean a million were lost as dwellings. If RTB hadnt happened, they wouldn't have been freed up. They would still be occupied by the people who bought them.

Irrespective, I don't dispute it's an ingredient in the foul tasting housing crisis cake. It's just not the biggest and that is the massive spike in demand that impacts all sectors.

��

You are priceless

[the other bob wilson]

They didn't have to buy the house , they chose to buy it

My view is that council houses should never be up for sale and those offered them should refuse to buy them

Then , when they pass on , the house goes back to the council to offer another person or persons low rent housing

Thus we have a supply of housing for those who need it at low rented cost

If houses are sold they are lost forever and mostly never replaced

The individual circumstances of why people buy council homes are irrelevant

It's as simple as that

Who are you from a distance of nearly half a century to label my parents “greedy and selfish gits” and “as bad as Thatcher”? If you’ve got to apportion blame, it’s got to be at those bodies with authority to give the green light to council and social housing schemes that created the situation whereby not enough of them are being built to satisfy demand. You’re effectively saying that my parents should have decided back in the mid 70s, that they wouldn’t take up what was a once in a lifetime opportunity for them because they knew that successive Governments and local Governments in the coming decades would create a situation where the country is crying out for social and council housing - that’s ludicrous.

[Heathblue]

Posh, privileged, Blazer, Satchel and Cap kid from Cowbridge, lectures kids brought up on sink estates who's parents never had a pot to piss in, CCMB in a thread, a great start to what is going to be a long day

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Who are you from a distance of nearly half a century to label my parents “greedy and selfish gits” and “as bad as Thatcher”? If you’ve got to apportion blame, it’s got to be at those bodies with authority to give the green light to council and social housing schemes that created the situation whereby not enough of them are being built to satisfy demand. You’re effectively saying that my parents should have decided back in the mid 70s, that they wouldn’t take up what was a once in a lifetime opportunity for them because they knew that successive Governments and local Governments in the coming decades would create a situation where the country is crying out for social and council housing - that’s ludicrous.

As far as I am concerned it's about principles then and now

That's the way it is

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Posh, privileged, Blazer, Satchel and Cap kid from Cowbridge, lectures kids brought up on sink estates who's parents never had a pot to piss in, CCMB in a thread, a great start to what is going to be a long day

Neath

What sink estate were you brought up on then

You benefitted from right to buy so your working class diatribes on here have always been fake

[Heathblue]

Neath

What sink estate were you brought up on then

You benefitted from right to buy so your working class diatribes on here have always been fake

When I left home, my mum and dad were still paying rent I often had to hide and pretend I wasn’t in when the rent collector came. Since then, I’ve only lived in two homes, both with a mortgage. Benefitted? In your dreams sunshine. The Salvation Army gave my mum and me shelter when I was born, we were homeless. I wasn't born in Bristol because my mum fancied a weekend trip to the mendips. You don't know people via MB posts sonny.

[goats]

Yesterday both labour and Plaid were absolutely battered by reform in a council election in Carmarthenshire

Low turnout at 33 percent but reform polled 42 percent of the vote

I think everyone is sleepwalking

Just wanting to get the lowlife running the country out, whatever the cost, bit like you thought with the general election I reckon.
I couldn’t care who wins as long as this shower, who think they can do anything with the nationalist freaks, are dust.