Kneecap

[the other bob wilson]

On my last shindig in Belfast on sale were 'Proud to be Proddy' assorted crap.

I'm not sure it's the derogatory term you feel it is?

Bob Vylan, I'd imagine could be getting a knock on the door.

Don'y you mean a knock on Heaven's door?

[the other bob wilson]

There's not an elephant in the room when it comes to the Kneecap/Bob Vylan furore, there's a blue whale

https://x.com/JerryHicksUnite/status...23964913688802

I think it went too far on Saturday, but there's a reason why people are so angry.

[stevo]

It looks like wishing death upon a genocidal army is a hate crime now.

https://www.councilestatemedia.uk/p/...ing-death-upon

[HiVis]

I've mentioned before I don't like my favorite bands bleating on about politics on stage, this guy intentionally was getting some notoriety and he's succeeded his words were awful but there is a but for me on this, the politicians of the UK, America, Europe have failed a race of people who have been slaughtered all of my adult life when and how does this stop? If our politicians basically turn a blind eye to it, if British justice is to remain consistent, the guy should do some porridge but the issue is more important than this, an apology to the Jewish people but not the Jewish leadership inc. their security forces should suffice in this instance.

There are ways of saying our politicians have failed without calling for the killing of anyone.

[Dorcus]

Don'y you mean a knock on Heaven's door?

The times, they are a'changin.

[Dorcus]

It looks like wishing death upon a genocidal army is a hate crime now.

https://www.councilestatemedia.uk/p/...ing-death-upon

There's no ethics left in the World. Pragmatism will be the end of all morality.

[Dorcus]

I just listened to Lisa Nandy's diatribe in the Commons today....WTF! This is nothing less than mind control!

[jon1959]

Bob Vylan statement today:

TODAY, A GOOD MANY PEOPLE WOULD HAVE YOU BELIEVE A PUNK BAND IS THE NUMBER ONE THREAT TO WORLD PEACE. LAST WEEK IT WAS A PALESTINE PRESSURE GROUP, THE WEEK BEFORE THAT IT WAS ANOTHER BAND.

WE ARE NOT FOR THE DEATH OF JEWS, ARABS OR ANY OTHER RACE OR GROUP OF PEOPLE. WE ARE FOR THE DISMANTLING OF A VIOLENT MILITARY MACHINE. A MACHINE WHOSE OWN SOLDIERS WERE TOLD TO USE 'UNNECESSARY LETHAL FORCE AGAINST INNOCENT CIVILIANS WAITING FOR AID. A MACHINE THAT HAS DESTROYED MUCH OF GAZA.

WE, LIKE THOSE IN THE SPOTLIGHT BEFORE US, ARE NOT THE STORY. WE ARE A DISTRACTION FROM THE STORY. AND WHATEVER SANCTIONS WE RECEIVE WILL BE A DISTRACTION.

THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T WANT US TO ASK WHY THEY REMAIN SILENT IN THE FACE OF THIS ATROCITY? TO ASK WHY THEY AREN'T DOING MORE TO STOP THE KILLING? TO FEED THE STARVING?

THE MORE TIME THEY TALK ABOUT BOB VYLAN, THE LESS TIME THEY SPEND ANSWERING FOR THEIR CRIMINAL INACTION.

WE ARE BEING TARGETED FOR SPEAKING UP. WE ARE NOT THE FIRST. WE WILL NOT BE THE LAST. AND IF YOU CARE FOR THE SANCTITY OF HUMAN LIFE AND FREEDOM OF SPEECH, WE URGE YOU TO SPEAK UP, TOO.

https://www.councilestatemedia.uk/p/...genocidal-army

[Dorcus]

Bob Vylan statement today:

TODAY, A GOOD MANY PEOPLE WOULD HAVE YOU BELIEVE A PUNK BAND IS THE NUMBER ONE THREAT TO WORLD PEACE. LAST WEEK IT WAS A PALESTINE PRESSURE GROUP, THE WEEK BEFORE THAT IT WAS ANOTHER BAND.

WE ARE NOT FOR THE DEATH OF JEWS, ARABS OR ANY OTHER RACE OR GROUP OF PEOPLE. WE ARE FOR THE DISMANTLING OF A VIOLENT MILITARY MACHINE. A MACHINE WHOSE OWN SOLDIERS WERE TOLD TO USE 'UNNECESSARY LETHAL FORCE AGAINST INNOCENT CIVILIANS WAITING FOR AID. A MACHINE THAT HAS DESTROYED MUCH OF GAZA.

WE, LIKE THOSE IN THE SPOTLIGHT BEFORE US, ARE NOT THE STORY. WE ARE A DISTRACTION FROM THE STORY. AND WHATEVER SANCTIONS WE RECEIVE WILL BE A DISTRACTION.

THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T WANT US TO ASK WHY THEY REMAIN SILENT IN THE FACE OF THIS ATROCITY? TO ASK WHY THEY AREN'T DOING MORE TO STOP THE KILLING? TO FEED THE STARVING?

THE MORE TIME THEY TALK ABOUT BOB VYLAN, THE LESS TIME THEY SPEND ANSWERING FOR THEIR CRIMINAL INACTION.

WE ARE BEING TARGETED FOR SPEAKING UP. WE ARE NOT THE FIRST. WE WILL NOT BE THE LAST. AND IF YOU CARE FOR THE SANCTITY OF HUMAN LIFE AND FREEDOM OF SPEECH, WE URGE YOU TO SPEAK UP, TOO.

https://www.councilestatemedia.uk/p/...genocidal-army

Respect 👍

[jeepster]

Bob Vylan statement today:

TODAY, A GOOD MANY PEOPLE WOULD HAVE YOU BELIEVE A PUNK BAND IS THE NUMBER ONE THREAT TO WORLD PEACE. LAST WEEK IT WAS A PALESTINE PRESSURE GROUP, THE WEEK BEFORE THAT IT WAS ANOTHER BAND.

WE ARE NOT FOR THE DEATH OF JEWS, ARABS OR ANY OTHER RACE OR GROUP OF PEOPLE. WE ARE FOR THE DISMANTLING OF A VIOLENT MILITARY MACHINE. A MACHINE WHOSE OWN SOLDIERS WERE TOLD TO USE 'UNNECESSARY LETHAL FORCE AGAINST INNOCENT CIVILIANS WAITING FOR AID. A MACHINE THAT HAS DESTROYED MUCH OF GAZA.

WE, LIKE THOSE IN THE SPOTLIGHT BEFORE US, ARE NOT THE STORY. WE ARE A DISTRACTION FROM THE STORY. AND WHATEVER SANCTIONS WE RECEIVE WILL BE A DISTRACTION.

THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T WANT US TO ASK WHY THEY REMAIN SILENT IN THE FACE OF THIS ATROCITY? TO ASK WHY THEY AREN'T DOING MORE TO STOP THE KILLING? TO FEED THE STARVING?

THE MORE TIME THEY TALK ABOUT BOB VYLAN, THE LESS TIME THEY SPEND ANSWERING FOR THEIR CRIMINAL INACTION.

WE ARE BEING TARGETED FOR SPEAKING UP. WE ARE NOT THE FIRST. WE WILL NOT BE THE LAST. AND IF YOU CARE FOR THE SANCTITY OF HUMAN LIFE AND FREEDOM OF SPEECH, WE URGE YOU TO SPEAK UP, TOO.

https://www.councilestatemedia.uk/p/...genocidal-army

So true

[JamesWales]

Straw man argument. No one thinks a punk band is the world's greatest threat to peace.

But most normal people don't want band and crowds chanting death to people.

When you have to lie at the start of the statement it undermines the rest of it.

Or perhaps some of you can point to where anyone thinks they are the greatest threat to world peace?

[Wales-Bales]

I heard the bloke with the balaclava is about 60 years old!

[JamesWales]

I heard the bloke with the balaclava is about 60 years old!

He's just cold okay. Stop criticising him you colonialist.

[Hilts]

If bands had been prominent in the late 30s would anti nazi chants been treated with the same outrage

[JamesWales]

If bands had been prominent in the late 30s would anti nazi chants been treated with the same outrage

The Nazis would have been in the crowd chanting along with the death calls.

[Coyote]

Bob Vylan statement today:

TODAY, A GOOD MANY PEOPLE WOULD HAVE YOU BELIEVE A PUNK BAND IS THE NUMBER ONE THREAT TO WORLD PEACE. LAST WEEK IT WAS A PALESTINE PRESSURE GROUP, THE WEEK BEFORE THAT IT WAS ANOTHER BAND.

WE ARE NOT FOR THE DEATH OF JEWS, ARABS OR ANY OTHER RACE OR GROUP OF PEOPLE. WE ARE FOR THE DISMANTLING OF A VIOLENT MILITARY MACHINE. A MACHINE WHOSE OWN SOLDIERS WERE TOLD TO USE 'UNNECESSARY LETHAL FORCE AGAINST INNOCENT CIVILIANS WAITING FOR AID. A MACHINE THAT HAS DESTROYED MUCH OF GAZA.

WE, LIKE THOSE IN THE SPOTLIGHT BEFORE US, ARE NOT THE STORY. WE ARE A DISTRACTION FROM THE STORY. AND WHATEVER SANCTIONS WE RECEIVE WILL BE A DISTRACTION.

THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T WANT US TO ASK WHY THEY REMAIN SILENT IN THE FACE OF THIS ATROCITY? TO ASK WHY THEY AREN'T DOING MORE TO STOP THE KILLING? TO FEED THE STARVING?

THE MORE TIME THEY TALK ABOUT BOB VYLAN, THE LESS TIME THEY SPEND ANSWERING FOR THEIR CRIMINAL INACTION.

WE ARE BEING TARGETED FOR SPEAKING UP. WE ARE NOT THE FIRST. WE WILL NOT BE THE LAST. AND IF YOU CARE FOR THE SANCTITY OF HUMAN LIFE AND FREEDOM OF SPEECH, WE URGE YOU TO SPEAK UP, TOO.

https://www.councilestatemedia.uk/p/...genocidal-army

Excellent statement.

[HiVis]

we have the usual issue that most people cannot understand two or more things can be true simultaneously.

should the IDF cease its genocidal activities in Gaza? yes

Should the UK government do more to put pressure on Israel? Yes

Should we have laws to stop hate speech, such as calling for the death of individual(S) or specific groups? Yes

Bob Vylan are irrelevant anyway, ****ing dire music. Its better to bring the discussion back to their attempt at entertaining rather than their misplaced calls for the killing of others.

[Dorcus]

we have the usual issue that most people cannot understand two or more things can be true simultaneously.

should the IDF cease its genocidal activities in Gaza? yes

Should the UK government do more to put pressure on Israel? Yes

Should we have laws to stop hate speech, such as calling for the death of individual(S) or specific groups? Yes

Bob Vylan are irrelevant anyway, ****ing dire music. Its better to bring the discussion back to their attempt at entertaining rather than their misplaced calls for the killing of others.

I agree with all your propositions and maybe Bob should be prosecuted for a hate speech. However, in the interests of freedom, shouldn't the BBC have a duty to transmit the incident so that people could make up their own minds up about it,? Anything else is political censorship and that doesn't bode well.

[HiVis]

I agree with all your propositions and maybe Bob should be prosecuted for a hate speech. However, in the interests of freedom, shouldn't the BBC have a duty to transmit the incident so that people could make up their own minds up about it,? Anything else is political censorship and that doesn't bode well.

there are laws against broadcasters broadcasting hate speech....however if they were to include this on the news, they may get away with it.

in this day and age, it won't be long before this is all over social media, so the Beeb have no need to show it, as we'll all see it anyway (if you've not already seen it).

When the mad mullahs chant death to the infidels, we take it seriously and make reference to extreme points of view. I'm not sure why this would be any different, its just reversed.

There are ways and means of promoting your viewpoint and making it clear our government are complicit, and the Israeli state and the IDF have a lot to answer for.

[jon1959]

There are a lot of very different things getting conflated in the discussion of alleged 'hate speech'.

The Cambridge Dictionary defines 'hate speech' as "public speech that expresses hate or encourages violence towards a person or group based on something such as race, religion, sex, or sexual orientation".

Other definitions I have read say similar.

Neither Kneecap or Bob Vylan have said anything that fits those definitions of hate speech.

They have advocated violence (whether intended literally or not) against MPs in the case of Kneecap and a genocidal army in Bob Vylan's case. With the 'death to the IDF' slogan I think most people would see the target as a military institution rather than the people who wear its uniform - and the hatred is towards an army that is committing mass civilian murder on a daily basis. I hate them too.

Both Kneecap and Bob Vylan set out to provoke and succeeded. I think both slogans/chants are childish and stupid - especially the 'kill your MP' one from Kneecap whilst agreeing with their opposition to genocide and support for the Palestinian people.

There may be criminal prosecutions.

But neither are 'hate speech' and neither are anti semitic - despite the screaming of political and media hypocrites.

Hypocrites like the last UK Chief Rabbi, Jonathan Sachs, and the current one Ephraim Mirvis - who are both free with allegations of anti semitism and denouncing 'hate speech'. They are/were (Sachs is dead) regular participants in the annual March Of The Flags in Jerusalem. This is the event that celebrates the annexation of East Jerusalem after the 1967 war. It is marked by racist chanting 'death to Arabs', 'may their villages burn' and is accompanied by vandalism and looting of Arab homes and businesses. It has been like that for decades, and certainly when the UK Chief Rabbis were there cheerleading.

Haaretz (Israeli liberal newspaper) calls it an annual pogrom.

[HiVis]

The Cambridge Dictionary defines 'hate speech' as "public speech that expresses hate or encourages violence towards a person or group based on something such as race, religion, sex, or sexual orientation".

in my opinion, both Bob Vylan and Kneecap's words were

1. public
2. encouraged violence
3. targeted a specific person or group

the law is very clear about this, and you'll be well aware that its not the Cambridge dictionary definition that is relevant here, its the actual legislation.

[jon1959]

in my opinion, both Bob Vylan and Kneecap's words were

1. public
2. encouraged violence
3. targeted a specific person or group

the law is very clear about this, and you'll be well aware that its not the Cambridge dictionary definition that is relevant here, its the actual legislation.

Thanks - yes I realise the law is not found in on-line dictionaries.

However, the dictionary definitions are reflecting the law as written in statute. I believe this wiki summary accurately explains the current law:

Hate speech laws in England and Wales are found in several statutes, and differ slightly from the laws adopted in Scotland. Expressions of hatred toward someone on account of that person's colour, race, sex, disability, nationality (including citizenship), ethnic or national origin, religion, or sexual orientation is forbidden. Any communication which is threatening or abusive, and is intended to harass, alarm, or distress someone is forbidden. The penalties for hate speech include fines, imprisonment, or both.

The Police and CPS have formulated a definition of hate crimes and hate incidents, with hate speech forming a subset of these. Something is a hate incident if the victim or anyone else think it was motivated by hostility or prejudice based on: disability, race, religion, gender identity or sexual orientation. A hate incident becomes a hate crime if it crosses the boundary of criminality.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_s...United_Kingdom

My point stands. The words described as 'hate speech' by some could be called threatening or abusive. Coming from a two man punk band and directed at a modern nuclear-armed army of over 600,000 (including reservists) it was clearly not intended to harass, alarm or distress! It was not directed at the IDF because of their ethnic origin, religion or sexual orientation - it was because of their genocidal actions!