Not a good look for the Premier League.

[the other bob wilson]

Surprised by how many are so defensive about the Premier League in this thread. I’ve not said the Premier League is crap, it’s clearly not that, but I think it had a bad season in 24/25 with Sky casting about trying to find a game with something worthwhile riding on it on the final day of the season.

No one seems to be willing (or able?) to answer my main point that any league where 33 pundits and 2 computers are predicting that there are only 4 sides they think will fill positions 1 to 4 has got a bit of a problem - that’s 140 individual questions being asked in this survey and, between them, it produces only 4 answers. I find that amazing and I defy anyone to come up with any National league in the world where you’d stand a good chance of getting the same answer.

I’m not saying that the Premier League is in crisis or anything like that, but, after two seasons when the three promoted sides were relegated and a bit of a non event at the top last year, it’s approaching a stage where it’s going to start being considered boring if those 35 pundits turn out to be right.

[The Lone Gunman]

No one seems to be willing (or able?) to answer my main point that any league where 33 pundits and 2 computers are predicting that there are only 4 sides they think will fill positions 1 to 4 has got a bit of a problem....

Why is that a problem?

It's the way things look likely to go at the moment, and pundits very often take the easiest options when making predictions, but that doesn't mean to say it definitely will happen or that, even if it does happen, it will always be that way.

You are, of course, a prolific poster on this message board, so perhaps your interest in the Premier League seems exaggerated to a degree, but you do seem to moan about various aspects of the top flight on a very regular basis. Considering you're a Cardiff City fanatic, it's a bit strange given the fact that we're absolutely nowhere near the Premier League and have only ever spent two seasons in it.

[the other bob wilson]

Why is that a problem?

It's the way things look likely to go at the moment, and pundits very often take the easiest options when making predictions, but that doesn't mean to say it definitely will happen or that, even if it does happen, it will always be that way.

You are, of course, a prolific poster on this message board, so perhaps your interest in the Premier League seems exaggerated to a degree, but you do seem to moan about various aspects of the top flight on a very regular basis. Considering you're a Cardiff City fanatic, it's a bit strange given the fact that we're absolutely nowhere near the Premier League and have only ever spent two seasons in it.

I said any league would have a problem if there was a perception that it was as predictable as the top of the Premier League is suggested as being this season.

If I’m anti Premier League, it’s probably because the socialist in me dislikes the way it mirrors modern day Britain with the money and power increasingly being in the hands of an elite few to the detriment of the many - it’s not going to change any time soon, but a few more seasons like 24/25 might well see the likes of Sky less willing to pay as much as they do now for their TV deals.

[The Lone Gunman]

I said any league would have a problem if there was a perception that it was as predictable as the top of the Premier League is suggested as being this season.

I do understand what you're saying, but I became a football fan in the mid-Seventies. 1975/76 was my first full season. From 1975/76 to 1989/90, Liverpool won the league 10 out of 15 times and were runners-up in 4 of the 5 seasons they didn't win it.

The biggest teams in the country have taken it in turns to dominate the top flight ever since I've been watching football. Occasionally, another club comes along and upsets the apple cart like Leeds in 91/92, Blackburn in 94/95 and Leicester in 15/16, but generally it's the major players in and around the top of the table and that's the way it's been throughout my time as a fan. The thing is, that's how football is all over Europe and our top flight is undoubtedly more competitive than many.

Liverpool are 13/8 to win the Premier League this season. Bayern are 2/9 to win the Bundesliga. Real Madrid are 17/20 to win La Liga. PSG are 1/12 to win Ligue 1. Only in Italy does the championship look as competitive as it is here, with Napoli the favourites at 13/8.

I do understand the point you're trying to make, but that's professional football these days and if you'd told people Manchester United and Spurs would finish in the bottom half of the table a couple of years ago, you'd have been laughed at. Nothing is written in stone where the Premier League is concerned.

[the other bob wilson]

I do understand what you're saying, but I became a football fan in the mid-Seventies. 1975/76 was my first full season. From 1975/76 to 1989/90, Liverpool won the league 10 out of 15 times and were runners-up in 4 of the 5 seasons they didn't win it.

The biggest teams in the country have taken it in turns to dominate the top flight ever since I've been watching football. Occasionally, another club comes along and upsets the apple cart like Leeds in 91/92, Blackburn in 94/95 and Leicester in 15/16, but generally it's the major players in and around the top of the table and that's the way it's been throughout my time as a fan. The thing is, that's how football is all over Europe and our top flight is undoubtedly more competitive than many.

Liverpool are 13/8 to win the Premier League this season. Bayern are 2/9 to win the Bundesliga. Real Madrid are 17/20 to win La Liga. PSG are 1/12 to win Ligue 1. Only in Italy does the championship look as competitive as it is here, with Napoli the favourites at 13/8.

I do understand the point you're trying to make, but that's professional football these days and if you'd told people Manchester United and Spurs would finish in the bottom half of the table a couple of years ago, you'd have been laughed at. Nothing is written in stone where the Premier League is concerned.

Mm, Man United maybe, but Spurs have always had a real ropey season in them for as long as I’ve been watching the game.

You mention 75/76, but I’d go back a year to your first season watching the game for the most remarkable and competitive top flight season I can remember.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974%E...First_Division

As I remember it, all of the top 8 led the table at one rime well into the season and I’m pretty sure that Burnley topped the table in January. It was a fantastic season the like of which won’t be seen again

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Mm, Man United maybe, but Spurs have always had a real ropey season in them for as long as I’ve been watching the game.

You mention 75/76, but I’d go back a year to your first season watching the game for the most remarkable and competitive top flight season I can remember.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974%E...First_Division

As I remember it, all of the top 8 led the table at one rime well into the season and I’m pretty sure that Burnley topped the table in January. It was a fantastic season the like of which won’t be seen again

Almost :

https://www.englishfootballleaguetab...975-03-08.html

[City123]

Mm, Man United maybe, but Spurs have always had a real ropey season in them for as long as I’ve been watching the game.

You mention 75/76, but I’d go back a year to your first season watching the game for the most remarkable and competitive top flight season I can remember.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974%E...First_Division

As I remember it, all of the top 8 led the table at one rime well into the season and I’m pretty sure that Burnley topped the table in January. It was a fantastic season the like of which won’t be seen again

Spurs one place above the relegation spots

Some things never change!

[the other bob wilson]

Spurs one place above the relegation spots

Some things never change!

Spurs had what would have been a relegation four pointer with Chelsea right at the end of the season. Chelsea picked a very young team with 18 year old Ray Wilkins captain and were beaten 2-0 - before that, Spurs looked like going down and they did two years later.

[delmbox]

I don't get what your getting at here Bob, if those predictions prove correct and it's a 4 way fight for the title that's a pretty exciting league isn't it?

[splott parker]

The sheer number of players involved is all a bit too much for me at my age. I’ve definitely become more Citycentric as the years have gone by. There’s players getting international caps that I haven’t heard of. It does take the shine off it a bit when I watch a Premier League match and I don’t recognise the line ups. I think it’s an age thing, I imagine youngsters, who are definitely out and out City fans, still have their finger on the pulse of the top division and enjoy it as much as I did in 60s & 70s, even though Cardiff City were my team.

Perhaps TOBW has fallen out of love with the game in general as time has gone on if he’s anything like me. Years ago if a match was on, usually late night highlights in those days, there wouldn’t be a chance of me missing it. Nowadays my missus will say ‘There’s a game on, I’ll go in the other room if you like’ and I don’t bother and we carry on watching what’s on.

[The Lone Gunman]

Perhaps TOBW has fallen out of love with the game in general as time has gone on if he’s anything like me. Years ago if a match was on, usually late night highlights in those days, there wouldn’t be a chance of me missing it. Nowadays my missus will say ‘There’s a game on, I’ll go in the other room if you like’ and I don’t bother and we carry on watching what’s on.

I reckon that’s as much to do with the saturation coverage of football these days as it is with people like us falling out of love with the game to varying degrees.

We can remember the time when a live football match on TV was a relative rarity. These days we can watch City playing Cheltenham in a midweek League Cup tie.

[Father Dougal]

I reckon that’s as much to do with the saturation coverage of football these days as it is with people like us falling out of love with the game to varying degrees.

We can remember the time when a live football match on TV was a relative rarity. These days we can watch City playing Cheltenham in a midweek League Cup tie.

Yeah all 3 city games so far have been live on sky. How much interest any neutral would have had in watching us play port vale or peterborough or swindon i can only guess.

I remember 96 or 97 i think it was when our 2nd round fa cup tie v gillingham was on tv and it was a big deal. Andy gray came. Pat mountain played in goals. Was a protest in the grandstand after the game.

[NinianKnight]

I do understand what you're saying, but I became a football fan in the mid-Seventies. 1975/76 was my first full season. From 1975/76 to 1989/90, Liverpool won the league 10 out of 15 times and were runners-up in 4 of the 5 seasons they didn't win it.

The biggest teams in the country have taken it in turns to dominate the top flight ever since I've been watching football. Occasionally, another club comes along and upsets the apple cart like Leeds in 91/92, Blackburn in 94/95 and Leicester in 15/16, but generally it's the major players in and around the top of the table and that's the way it's been throughout my time as a fan. The thing is, that's how football is all over Europe and our top flight is undoubtedly more competitive than many.

Liverpool are 13/8 to win the Premier League this season. Bayern are 2/9 to win the Bundesliga. Real Madrid are 17/20 to win La Liga. PSG are 1/12 to win Ligue 1. Only in Italy does the championship look as competitive as it is here, with Napoli the favourites at 13/8.

I do understand the point you're trying to make, but that's professional football these days and if you'd told people Manchester United and Spurs would finish in the bottom half of the table a couple of years ago, you'd have been laughed at. Nothing is written in stone where the Premier League is concerned.

God how boring

[The Lone Gunman]

God how boring

Ooh, goody gumdrops. Another multi…

[J R Hartley]

Well that opening game was a good look.

6 goals and Bournemouth really taking the game to the Champions. Unlucky to find themselves 2-0’down and fought back to 2-2. Not one for the defensive purists but a good watch for the neutral.

[splott parker]

Well that opening game was a good look.

6 goals and Bournemouth really taking the game to the Champions. Unlucky to find themselves 2-0’down and fought back to 2-2. Not one for the defensive purists but a good watch for the neutral.

Caught the last half hour, enjoyed that. End to end, bit gutted for Bournemouth who looked so dangerous on the break, such pace. I’m sure the defensive frailties of both sides will have been well noted as well as the attacking part of their game.

[J R Hartley]

Caught the last half hour, enjoyed that. End to end, bit gutted for Bournemouth who looked so dangerous on the break, such pace. I’m sure the defensive frailties of both sides will have been well noted as well as the attacking part of their game.

Bournemouth were probably the better team first half as well. Liverpool’s defence all over the place but with the attacking players they’ve got they always got the chances to bail out the team.

That Semenyo looked a player for Bournemouth . So fast. Surprised he signed a new deal when he had many bigger clubs supposedly after him.

Their manager Areola surely got to be next can off the tank for a top job too. Done a great job there:

[the other bob wilson]

I don't get what your getting at here Bob, if those predictions prove correct and it's a 4 way fight for the title that's a pretty exciting league isn't it?

It’d be a rarity to have a Premier League season where four sides had a realistic chance of winning the title going into the last international break. The survey does not go into how many points each of the top four will end up with, it’s just that there is unanimity that no one out of the other 16 will finish higher than Liverpool, Arsenal, Man City and Chelsea. I was surprised to see that there was only 15 points covering the top 4 last season because it felt inevitable who was going to win well before Christmas, but I suppose Liverpool did rest on their laurels somewhat once the title was confirmed.

[the other bob wilson]

The sheer number of players involved is all a bit too much for me at my age. I’ve definitely become more Citycentric as the years have gone by. There’s players getting international caps that I haven’t heard of. It does take the shine off it a bit when I watch a Premier League match and I don’t recognise the line ups. I think it’s an age thing, I imagine youngsters, who are definitely out and out City fans, still have their finger on the pulse of the top division and enjoy it as much as I did in 60s & 70s, even though Cardiff City were my team.

Perhaps TOBW has fallen out of love with the game in general as time has gone on if he’s anything like me. Years ago if a match was on, usually late night highlights in those days, there wouldn’t be a chance of me missing it. Nowadays my missus will say ‘There’s a game on, I’ll go in the other room if you like’ and I don’t bother and we carry on watching what’s on.

There’s a fair bit of me that I recognise in your message. I can trace my change in attitude back to when the Pozzo brothers took over at Watford. Before that, I’d have some knowledge of every player in the top two divisions especially, but Watford would come here or in a televised match and, probably because there was such a rapid turnover of players at that club, I wouldn’t have a clue about their team and it’s kind of spread from there.

Saturation TV coverage has definitely changed my attitude. I’d always watch the midweek late night highlights programmes without fail, but, despite them being on at much more convenient times, a live midweek game that I watch as a neutral has to be very good for me to stick with it for the whole ninety minutes. I can’t explain my attitude towards the Champions League - I’d watch it religiously when it was on a Wednesday night highlights after 10 pm, but I just never watch it these days until it gets to about the Quarter Final stage. I’ve missed some brilliant football because of that, but it makes no difference in terms of me watching live games before March/Aptil.

It’s not that I’ve gone off football, I still always watch nearly all of the Premier League and EFL games on Sky over a weekend, but, as I get closer to 70, I’ve seen a tremendous amount of football in my life and I’ve reached a stage where I think football has nothing left to surprise me with, but the reason why it really is the best game in the world is that it can still prove me wrong on a pretty regular basis.

[splott parker]

There’s a fair bit of me that I recognise in your message. I can trace my change in attitude back to when the Pozzo brothers took over at Watford. Before that, I’d have some knowledge of every player in the top two divisions especially, but Watford would come here or in a televised match and, probably because there was such a rapid turnover of players at that club, I wouldn’t have a clue about their team and it’s kind of spread from there.

Saturation TV coverage has definitely changed my attitude. I’d always watch the midweek late night highlights programmes without fail, but, despite them being on at much more convenient times, a live midweek game that I watch as a neutral has to be very good for me to stick with it for the whole ninety minutes. I can’t explain my attitude towards the Champions League - I’d watch it religiously when it was on a Wednesday night highlights after 10 pm, but I just never watch it these days until it gets to about the Quarter Final stage. I’ve missed some brilliant football because of that, but it makes no difference in terms of me watching live games before March/Aptil.

It’s not that I’ve gone off football, I still always watch nearly all of the Premier League and EFL games on Sky over a weekend, but, as I get closer to 70, I’ve seen a tremendous amount of football in my life and I’ve reached a stage where I think football has nothing left to surprise me with, but the reason why it really is the best game in the world is that it can still prove me wrong on a pretty regular basis.

I was, and still am I s’pose, obsessed with football history. I love it that I know daft, obscure anecdotes from eras like the early 1900s (and before), the 20s, 30s etc but I don’t love it that I get stumped on queries and questions from, say, the 90s on (coincidentally the Premier League era, or is it coincidence? Did my brain just switch off a little due to the much hyped product?) I can point out Steve Bloomer, Lord Kinnaird, Fatty Foulke, David Jack, Alex James etc etc but give me a current squad photo of any Premier League side and I’d be clutching at straws with the majority of players.

[JamesWales]

Surprised by how many are so defensive about the Premier League in this thread. I’ve not said the Premier League is crap, it’s clearly not that, but I think it had a bad season in 24/25 with Sky casting about trying to find a game with something worthwhile riding on it on the final day of the season.

No one seems to be willing (or able?) to answer my main point that any league where 33 pundits and 2 computers are predicting that there are only 4 sides they think will fill positions 1 to 4 has got a bit of a problem - that’s 140 individual questions being asked in this survey and, between them, it produces only 4 answers. I find that amazing and I defy anyone to come up with any National league in the world where you’d stand a good chance of getting the same answer.

I’m not saying that the Premier League is in crisis or anything like that, but, after two seasons when the three promoted sides were relegated and a bit of a non event at the top last year, it’s approaching a stage where it’s going to start being considered boring if those 35 pundits turn out to be right.

I think the thing is, everyone agrees with you that yes, it would be good for those pundits to have a greater diversity of teams within their top 4 predictions for the season. I certainly agree, and I am surprised no one has Newcastle or Villa or even Man United or Spurs there. That's true, it's not s great look.

Where people probably differ is in terms of how much can be read into that. It's only a prediction, its only a sample, it's very specific (refers to the top four instead of the predicted top 3 or top 5 or the winner etc), and it doesn't represent the quality of the league or how different it is to other top flights in other countries.

I'm pretty ambivalent about the premier League really. I follow it. It's the top league in my favourite sport and there is much to criticise it for, but I do think it's more competitive than a lot of leagues in all honesty.

[JamesWales]

Ooh, goody gumdrops. Another multi…

Kudos for saying goody goody gumdrops. It's been a while since I heard that.

Stick it up your bumchops

[The Lone Gunman]

A couple of weeks ago, the same question was asked of the Racing Post’s top ten sports writers. Most went for Liverpool, Man City, Arsenal and Chelsea to fill the top four places, but two went for Villa, one fancied Spurs and one opted for Newcastle.

[Crisp White Lines]

Many friends and family have expressed a growing disinterest in football, with most citing:
- too much of it on telly
- the “big teams” dominate everything
- players acting like spoilt, cheating, over-paid drama queens

I’m in agreement with them 100% on the first point. Sky et al are wringing every last drop out of their product, and its continuous over-hyping of every game has become tiresome.

On the second point - which is somewhat related to the point TOBW makes - I agree to some extent. Last season showed how there is always a possibility of upsets. Palace and Newcastle in the cups. Forest, Brighton, Fulham even, getting in and around the top 10.

Yes, the usual suspects ended up in the top positions, but that was not guaranteed for some time.

The last point I listed above is a big reason why I, personally, feel football has become less enjoyable. Other threads have discussed the cheating, diving, pulling, professional fouling, and general spoilt behaviour of players. I can’t stand it.

And yet….every season I experience those moments of sheer exuberance and excitement when I see a player or team do something magical with a football.

And I’m won over yet again…

[JamesWales]

Agree with all those. Id add the perennial issue of ticket prices, corporate nature of the league etc to it too. These are bigger issues for me than the predictability of it.

I despise the diving and play acting and how it's become normalised to dive.

I'll add another thing too. VAR. I have mixed views on it's use generally but it absolutely does change how goals are celebrated and some of the "in the moment" feelings that live sport are all about.