Charlie Kirk

[Dorcus]

This is the real issue we all need to be concerned about.

And when will people (on both sides) learn that nothing is resolved through violence.

I wouldn't particularly wish for anyone to be murdered but there's no doubt Kirk was a very unpleasant man with unsound views. I would have preferred he lived but my tears will be shed not for him but instead for all the innocents, including so many children in the US and all the poor innocents throughout the World, including so many children in Gaza, who continue to be slaughtered by terrorists.

I find it disgusting and distressing that the US right, led by the insane Trump and his cronies, is attempting to incite political vengeance through violence by promoting this guy as a martyr.

It's s extremely powerful rhetoric and it will likely rouse the savages amongst us. I've no doubt the US is closer than ever to a second civil war and if that does indeed happen watch the rest of the World fall into the conflagration. Who would benefit most from an internally divided and preoccupied USA, riven and military impotent? This could present a golden opportunity for Putin and Xi to hurry along and achieve their territorial and political goals.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

This is the real issue we all need to be concerned about.

And when will people (on both sides) learn that nothing is resolved through violence.

That's a bit fanciful on a broader scale though, isn't it? Empires of all descriptions expanded around the globe over the centuries partly due to war and violence. Two of the largest geo-political entities today (China and Russia) are violent to their domestic detractors and remain in power.
Royal and so-called noble families are in situ in many countries around the world (and occupy tracts of land and real estate as well as eercising considerable influence) courtesy of wars fought centuries ago by their ancestors. Some countries gained independence by using violence against their oppressors which has therefore resulted in solutions of various descriptions. The list goes on.
Lines on maps have been drawn and internationally recognised following.
And in this particular let's not forget that the USA was established on the back of violence to what then were indigenous peoples - and the attachment to weaponry in the States has its roots in that violent past.

[Dorcus]

That's a bit fanciful on a broader scale though, isn't it? Empires of all descriptions expanded around the globe over the centuries partly due to war and violence. Two of the largest geo-political entities today (China and Russia) are violent to their domestic detractors and remain in power.
Royal and so-called noble families are in situ in many countries around the world (and occupy tracts of land and real estate as well as eercising considerable influence) courtesy of wars fought centuries ago by their ancestors. Some countries gained independence by using violence against their oppressors which has therefore resulted in solutions of various descriptions. The list goes on.
Lines on maps have been drawn and internationally recognised following.
And in this particular let's not forget that the USA was established on the back of violence to what then were indigenous peoples - and the attachment to weaponry in the States has its roots in that violent past.

There's never been a period in human history when power, wealth and status hasn't been gained by overwhelming violence. All human administration's are in situ because of the implicit threat of violence as it's defender of last resort.

[az city]

Sludge, the question was for Jimbo.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Sludge, the question was for Jimbo.

I know , I replied to him via you

Hence me quoting his come together psalm

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Sludge, the question was for Jimbo.

I know , I replied to him via you

Hence me quoting his come together psalm

[Dorcus]

Listening to other people's views is critical and we need to regain it

What a load of pseudo university cobblers

America under Trump is about as much about listening to other people's views as a pie and chips is to a healthy diet

Kirk wasn't some messiah like figure who had come about to change the world he was a calculating very right wing god promoting rabble rouser dressed up in pleasant words and a suit ...until he got really challenged then he was right up for a scrap and confrontation

It doesnt mean that people " glad " about his death are in any way decent and worth sharing a coffee with but these sort of unpleasant events are sadly part of life

Its all a bit ott faux

I just wonder, for example, if some people would be entirely happy with someone going on a tour (colleges, maybe even schools) promoting the rights of paedophiles and terrorists and explaining the virtues of both under the defence of "free speech"?

Maybe some such person should not lose his/her life for expressing such views but to my mind the sane approach should be to deny them the right to disseminate such unpleasant and unsafe views in the first place.

[JamesWales]

I seldom peruse this forum, however, having read this particular thread, I think you've come across well, and I agree with you. Just saying.

Thanks

[JamesWales]

Tell us what Kirk said we should agree with.

You don't have to agree with any of it.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

I just wonder, for example, if some people would be entirely happy with someone going on a tour (colleges, maybe even schools) promoting the rights of paedophiles and terrorists and explaining the virtues of both under the defence of "free speech"?

Maybe some such person should not lose his/her life for expressing such views but to my mind the sane approach should be to deny them the right to disseminate such unpleasant and unsafe views in the first place.

It's not that black and white though - and different people draw a line in different places in the sand regarding morality.
Even given your example, would you ban someone who intended touring colleges expressing that the age of consent be lowered by three months (and which would represent paedophilia as the law currently stands)?

[Dorcus]

It's not that black and white though - and different people draw a line in different places in the sand regarding morality.
Even given your example, would you ban someone who intended touring colleges expressing that the age of consent be lowered by three months (and which would represent paedophilia as the law currently stands)?

I personally think it's far less grey than some people wish to think. We are solidly on Ethics territory now and I believe (surpassing all religions) there is an ethical compass which is innate to all homo sapiens. The issue is there will always be the tiny minority who have divergent views.

These rules more than often serve a practical purpose apart from a purely moral one. An example would be murder: if it were not ethically and legally frowned upon, human civilization and existence would be at placed at incalculable risk!

Your last point is moot and of course subject to collaborative analysis so I really am open on it until explored in depth. Clearly the views of physiologists and psychologists would be extremely important. On the other hand, would you support a pretty glaring example whereby someone tours colleges and schools promoting a reduction in the age of consent by 10 years?

[Dorcus]

You don't have to agree with any of it.

I think therein lies the problem

[JamesWales]

I think therein lies the problem

What, being free to believe in some things and not others? That's most definitely not the problem.

[Dorcus]

What, being free to believe in some things and not others? That's most definitely not the problem.

It most certainly is! I think you need to come back to the real World

[Tuerto]

What, being free to believe in some things and not others? That's most definitely not the problem.

Can you elaborate a bit.

[JamesWales]

Can you elaborate a bit.

Am not sure what's confusing you here?!

[Wash DC Blue]

I despair at what has become of the left.
It is absolutely tragic!

[Dorcus]

I despair at what has become of the left.
It is absolutely tragic!

And the right, surely?

[az city]

JamesWales: You told us all in this very thread that you agreed with him. Tell us what you agreed with.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

I personally think it's far less grey than some people wish to think. We are solidly on Ethics territory now and I believe (surpassing all religions) there is an ethical compass which is innate to all homo sapiens. The issue is there will always be the tiny minority who have divergent views.

These rules more than often serve a practical purpose apart from a purely moral one. An example would be murder: if it were not ethically and legally frowned upon, human civilization and existence would be at placed at incalculable risk!

Your last point is moot and of course subject to collaborative analysis so I really am open on it until explored in depth. Clearly the views of physiologists and psychologists would be extremely important. On the other hand, would you support a pretty glaring example whereby someone tours colleges and schools promoting a reduction in the age of consent by 10 years?

I was being rather playful with my question about the example of the age of consent but your counter-question highlights my point in a way, I believe i.e. regarding where we all choose to draw the line. Anyway, don't detain yourself too much on this hypothetical scenario on a Friday evening

[Heathblue]

I despair at what has become of the left.
It is absolutely tragic!

What has been noticeable is that some loosing their jobs over their CK social media posts are white middle class radical left degree educated in education jobs (teachers etc.) is it any wonder the youngsters are being brought up to hate? the shooter was 22 FFS, I dont think he got the irony of murdering who he believed to be a fascist!!!

[az city]

What has been noticeable is that some loosing their jobs over their CK social media posts are white middle class radical left degree educated in education jobs (teachers etc.) is it any wonder the youngsters are being brought up to hate? the shooter was 22 FFS, I dont think he got the irony of murdering who he believed to be a fascist!!!

You are blaming "radical left" teachers for this? You are a weapons-grade moron.

[Heathblue]

You are blaming "radical left" teachers for this? You are a weapons-grade moron.

From someone in Arizona? are you sure ? enjoy your guns and spurs. its the hate in your speech that lets you down and confirms my post.

[az city]

From someone in Arizona? are you sure ? enjoy your guns and spurs. its the hate in your speech that lets you down and confirms my post.

LOL. I don't hate you, I pity you for your pathetic WUM idiocy.

[Heathblue]

LOL. I don't hate you, I pity you for your pathetic WUM idiocy.

I'm fine pal. no need for any pity. Its not my fault that Kari got robbed.