The War starts Putin announces "Military Operation" in Ukraine. Explosions heard in Kyiv

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

No I get that. It is a very tricky one for sure now….but My frustration is the build up has been happening for months and the threat of sanctions and all that jazz just wasn’t going to work.
I understand Ukraine isn’t part of NATO so clearly not covered by article 5 however Biden and Co have been saying for months that he’s going to invade, they knew it.
So why wasn’t force threatened that if a sovereign nation, part of Europe if invaded will be met by force by the international community rather than sanctions which could take months.
Putin is done now. Even China is on the 50/50 and they normally back him with everything.

Well both America and Britain in the past have not been backward in coming forwards when it comes to foreign policy

But this is Russia

2014 was the beginning of troop and armament movements

Plenty of time was available before any conflict to put arms and boots and tanks in Ukraine.

But all that's happened is a small donation in real terms of any concrete military support .

It's a plague on all their houses really .

[Rjk]

there are some insane posts on Reddit at the moment.

There are always a few things posted from years ago purporting to be from today when this sort of thing happens, so its important to check - but a lot of them check out and my god it's insane out there

[JamesWales]

Well both America and Britain in the past have not been backward in coming forwards when it comes to foreign policy

But this is Russia

2014 was the beginning of troop and armament movements

Plenty of time was available before any conflict to put arms and boots and tanks in Ukraine.

But all that's happened is a small donation in real terms of any concrete military support .

It's a plague on all their houses really .

What would you have said if the UK and America et al put tanks into Ukraine in 2016 or 2018 or any other time. The opposition would have been enormous

[Dorcus]

No I get that. It is a very tricky one for sure now….but My frustration is the build up has been happening for months and the threat of sanctions and all that jazz just wasn’t going to work.
I understand Ukraine isn’t part of NATO so clearly not covered by article 5 however Biden and Co have been saying for months that he’s going to invade, they knew it.
So why wasn’t force threatened that if a sovereign nation, part of Europe if invaded will be met by force by the international community rather than sanctions which could take months.
Putin is done now. Even China is on the 50/50 and they normally back him with everything.

I hope China doesn't back him in the Security Council. That could be a glimmer of light.

[delmbox]

It's too late now

Build up of troops since 2014 ?

Can't say we wernt warned

Bit pointless banging on about what the response has been if you haven't got a clue what you'd do differently though

[Wash DC Blue]

I'm trying to disengage my brain from politics in general and my own bias...it's tough though when people are so blatant in their hatred for the United Kingdom.

People should shut their fcking mouths about Britain's envolvement or accusing people of jingoism.

Do you know what Britain has done so far?
Do you know what Britain will do?
Do you know how British anti tank weapons helped Ukraine today???

The UK have committed a shit ton more to Ukraine
than the likes of Germany.

A proper anti facist is on his way right now to Wisconsin Avenue in DC.

[Wash DC Blue]

I hope China doesn't back him in the Security Council. That could be a glimmer of light.

That would be beautiful.
Can't see it happening sadly.

[Wash DC Blue]

If anybody wants to help financially btw.

https://www.gq.com/story/where-to-donate-in-ukraine

[az city]

Your oft stated opinions of the British people in general and nyone in authority in particular make me wonder more and more why you stay here.
Why don't you move somewhere more in line with your thinking and philosophy?

“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” Clarence Darrow.

[Dorcus]

That would be beautiful.
Can't see it happening sadly.

There's some hope China might abstain, possibly a forlorn hope but it's something to cling on to.

[xsnaggle]

“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” Clarence Darrow.

But it sticks in the throat somewhat when the person saying we should have done more, send troop or whatever, has spent for ever slagging off the government for actually doing things and thinks the UK is an agent of the US and everything it does is bad. He's a fecking joke.

[az city]

But it sticks in the throat somewhat when the person saying we should have done more, send troop or whatever, has spent for ever slagging off the government for actually doing things and thinks the UK is an agent of the US and everything it does is bad. He's a fecking joke.

“Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.” Howard Zinn.

[MOZZER2]

There's some hope China might abstain, possibly a forlorn hope but it's something to cling on to.

BREAKING: UN Security Council resolution condemning Russia for invasion of Ukraine fails due to Russian veto, China abstains

[Wash DC Blue]

There's some hope China might abstain, possibly a forlorn hope but it's something to cling on to.

They Did it!!

[William Treseder]

What would you do at this point if you were in charge? Genuinely interested. British and US troops on the ground, full blown war with Russia?

I think European and British troops should flood the Ukraine and push the Russians back.
You cannot allow one country, however powerful they are, to take liberties like this.
Sanctions are not gonna help the people of the Ukraine right now, when they are desperate for help.

[MOZZER2]

BREAKING: UN Security Council resolution condemning Russia for invasion of Ukraine fails due to Russian veto, China abstains

UN Security Council voting on resolution condemning Russia.

Yes

- United States
- United Kingdom
- France
- Norway
- Ireland
- Albania
- Gabon
- Mexico
- Brazil
- Ghana
- Kenya

No

- Russia

Abstain

- China
- India
- United Arab Emirates

[az city]

Maybe we should all just accept on this thread that there is a variegated set of views on what the West can/should do in response to Putin's naked aggression.

To me, there is one indisputable given - Putin is 100% in the wrong - but there are many, many more uncertainties. I feel a sense of despair because I feel the World is probably at its closest to war than at any other point in my lifetime.

I'm just hoping that there is a lot more going on behind the scenes than is apparent in the media.

[az city]

UN Security Council voting on resolution condemning Russia.

Yes

- United States
- United Kingdom
- France
- Norway
- Ireland
- Albania
- Gabon
- Mexico
- Brazil
- Ghana
- Kenya

No

- Russia

Abstain

- China
- India
- United Arab Emirates

Why did India and the UAE abstain?

[az city]

I think European and British troops should flood the Ukraine and push the Russians back.
You cannot allow one country, however powerful they are, to take liberties like this.
Sanctions are not gonna help the people of the Ukraine right now, when they are desperate for help.

So you want the UK to declare war on Russia?

[xsnaggle]

“Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.” Howard Zinn.

You can sit there and quote your shite all day. It doesn't alter anything. You are as bad. You sit on here banging on about brexit being bad from a position where it has no affect on you what so ever.

[MOZZER2]

Why did India and the UAE abstain?

maybe Russia supply with India with military equipment might have something to do with it ?

as for UAE I haven't got a clue

[Divine Wright]

Why did India and the UAE abstain?

India rely on Russian missiles for protection against China apparently. Dunno about UAE. Probably just butties.

[az city]

You can sit there and quote your shite all day. It doesn't alter anything. You are as bad. You sit on here banging on about brexit being bad from a position where it has no affect on you what so ever.

Peace be with you, too. Chill out. Read the post immediately after.

Actually, Brexit had a major effect on me. I was intending to go back to France to work and then retire.

Just for the record, I don't think what I posted was "shite". You may feel any criticism of one's nation is unacceptable, I don't. I think it's healthy. Have you not seen there have been 2K+ arrests in Russia of anti-war protesters? Your logic points to the Russian authorities being justified.

[jon1959]

Why did India and the UAE abstain?

Don't know about the UAE but India is reliant on Russian trade (support for Indian agriculture) and Imran Khan met with Putin yesterday in Moscow, so there is an Indian-Pakistani dimension too.

[az city]

Don't know about the UAE but India is reliant on Russian trade (support for Indian agriculture) and Imran Khan met with Putin yesterday in Moscow, so there is an Indian-Pakistani dimension too.

Thanks, to you, Mozzer and DW. I clearly need to brush up on my Asian geopolitics.