Chaos in Government

[Rjk]

Two simple answers.

The EU is very protectionist. The UK are more free market orientated than the protectionist EU.

The democratic deficit is of lack of accessibility to the ordinary citizen, or lack of representation of the ordinary citizen, and lack of accountability of European Union institutions

In what areas is the EU very protectionist?

The whole point is it's a free trade area, so anyone operating within that area is competing with all the other countries within that free trade area whether they like it or not.

In general the trade tariffs are very low as well for countries outside of the EU.

Yes the agriculture industry is supported, predominately to allow traditional less intensive farming methods to survive in the face of modern industrial mega farms

[North Cardiff Blue]

Even Carlos Coberan has resigned!

https://www.theguardian.com/football...eld-head-coach

[the other bob wilson]

Raab won’t be running for the leadership, so the field is down to forty nine

[North Cardiff Blue]

What about being in a free market while being in a position to change the democratic deficit.

What democratic deficits made you vote leave?

What benefits do we now have thanks to being out of this organisation which were caused by the democratic deficit?

2 simple questions.

Being out of the union-

Wages are increasing

No unemployment

[delmbox]

When does the "you lost get on with it" approach run out? Because we voted to join the EU in 1975 and 41 years later leavers were still demanding to overturn that vote

[HiVis]

I take on board what you say, but I think we would have seen a lot less austerity in the second half of the last decade and I doubt it if we would now be out of the EU - Brexit was totally a Conservative construct.

undoubtedly we would have seen less austerity, but whether that impacts the economy overall is debatable. All you are doing is shifting who has the money to spend.

In respect of your latter point, whilst at a party level I would agree, I think its a bit more complicated vis a vis the electorate. The collapse of the red wall across the north of England is down to Brexit. Lifelong Labour voters switching party alignment simply because they did not really understand what Labour's position was.

[North Cardiff Blue]

We are at the back of a queue in a trade deal and there is a war in Europe

Bent the truth be ****ed, leave flat out lied openly.

I’m on the side of remaining because it was good for the people of this country and it was good for our economy while allowing our country to affect the policy of the EU while having a lot more autonomy than most other countries in the group.

I didn’t want the vote because I knew why the billionaires wanted it and how they’d get what they wanted. You’re on the side of the oligarchs and the money launderers obviously.

What benefits of leaving have there been?

Actually it's mixed a lot of rich people made a lot of money housing EU citizens and employing them as cheap labour for their businesses most voted to remain and theres a common theme here BECAUSE IT WAS IN THERE BEST INTERESTS!

[Dorcus]

Good idea maybe Kier could start a new manifesto to bring back the EU ?

Stick that likeable character Emily Thornbry in charge, with Long-Baily as her deputy?

Emily is wonderful!

[North Cardiff Blue]

undoubtedly we would have seen less austerity, but whether that impacts the economy overall is debatable. All you are doing is shifting who has the money to spend.

In respect of your latter point, whilst at a party level I would agree, I think its a bit more complicated vis a vis the electorate. The collapse of the red wall across the north of England is down to Brexit. Lifelong Labour voters switching party alignment simply because they did not really understand what Labour's position was.

Lets be honest they didn't have one apart from try and stop Brexit, although that was split, and cost them the New Blue Wall!

[rudy gestede]

Being out of the union-

Wages are increasing

No unemployment

Wages are increasing due to inflation and it’s the same within the EU.

No unemployment is the stupidest way of spinning we can’t find anyone to do a shit load of jobs I’ve seen yet.

[bigjoe]

You could argue that the Ukraine conflict was, in part, caused by the EU ever expanding eastwards.

How would you do that?

[Dorcus]

undoubtedly we would have seen less austerity, but whether that impacts the economy overall is debatable. All you are doing is shifting who has the money to spend.

In respect of your latter point, whilst at a party level I would agree, I think its a bit more complicated vis a vis the electorate. The collapse of the red wall across the north of England is down to Brexit. Lifelong Labour voters switching party alignment simply because they did not really understand what Labour's position was.

Lifelong Labour voters who were taken in by Johnson, Farage and the Murdoch press. It was an exercise whereby huge swathes of the country were altered into Manchurian Candidates. The press even managed to distort the image of Jeremy Corbyn into a bogeyman contrary to the interest of the general populace. An amazing trick of mass brainwashing.

[North Cardiff Blue]

When does the "you lost get on with it" approach run out? Because we voted to join the EU in 1975 and 41 years later leavers were still demanding to overturn that vote

Forty one years and vote again

[North Cardiff Blue]

Wages are increasing due to inflation and it’s the same within the EU.

No unemployment is the stupidest way of spinning we can’t find anyone to do a shit load of jobs I’ve seen yet.

It's obvious getting rid of the cheaper EU Labour will increase employment and drive up wages,the first week long before inflation truck drivers were in demand and had huge rises.

Yes inflation could drive them up even further, but wage rises are supply and demand and we've decreased the labour supply.

It's not just cheap jobs it's every job!

[HiVis]

Lets be honest they didn't have one apart from try and stop Brexit, although that was split, and cost them the New Blue Wall!

I disagree. Labours policy was the Brexit decision was made by the electorate so let the electorate decide on what form of Brexit they want via a referendum.

[HiVis]

Lifelong Labour voters who were taken in by Johnson, Farage and the Murdoch press. It was an exercise whereby huge swathes of the country were altered into Manchurian Candidates. The press even managed to distort the image of Jeremy Corbyn into a bogeyman contrary to the interest of the general populace. An amazing trick of mass brainwashing.

You are rather arrogant to suggest people only vote for the Tories because they are taken in through brain washing. You're not as objective as you like to think you are.

[xsnaggle]

You are rather arrogant to suggest people only vote for the Tories because they are taken in through brain washing. You're not as objective as you like to think you are.

But if a life-long tory voter switches to labour is he taken in or had he seen the light? I think the answer to that from some may show just a tad of bias.

[the other bob wilson]

undoubtedly we would have seen less austerity, but whether that impacts the economy overall is debatable. All you are doing is shifting who has the money to spend.

In respect of your latter point, whilst at a party level I would agree, I think its a bit more complicated vis a vis the electorate. The collapse of the red wall across the north of England is down to Brexit. Lifelong Labour voters switching party alignment simply because they did not really understand what Labour's position was.

I’m not arguing either from a party political point of view. Johnson won in 2019 with a promise of more Government spending, so there was a recognition at that time that the era of austerity had to end - opposition parties had been advocating this for a few years before that and I think it’s reasonable to believe that, for better or worse, the economic condition of the country would have pretty different if, say, a Labour/Lib Dem coalition had been in power from 2015.

As for Brexit, I agree that the bandwagon for some sort of realignment of our relationship with the EU might have become hard to resist if UKIP had been able to repeat their results of around a decade ago, but I think a non Conservative Government would have pursued a negotiated compromise as opposed to a yes/no vote.

[HiVis]

But if a life-long tory voter switches to labour is he taken in or had he seen the light? I think the answer to that from some may show just a tad of bias.

Maybe just maybe for this one occasion the electorate prefer to vote for the party that has clarity over what they consider their most pressing issue.

Once Brexit is done and dusted, I'm pretty sure we'll see the red wall reappear.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Yes thought not!

So you vote for what suits you best!

Are you a Conservative Student at UWIC or something ?

Do you think everyone with money votes tory ?

[Dorcus]

You are rather arrogant to suggest people only vote for the Tories because they are taken in through brain washing. You're not as objective as you like to think you are.

I totally disagree and you are very arrogant to suggest so. I've never mentioned I wish to be objective. I've never witnessed any objectivity in your dire views.

[North Cardiff Blue]

You are rather arrogant to suggest people only vote for the Tories because they are taken in through brain washing. You're not as objective as you like to think you are.

Most vote tory because they say they'll lower taxes for higher earners and be carefull with the money, better for business and the economy.

Most vote Labour because they say they will tax the wealthy more, increase benefits and wages for the low paid and public industries and spend more on public services, but they can never say where the money is going to come from.

People voted New Labour because they said they would do most of both and because Tony was slick.

Once in they do what they can get away with!

[HiVis]

I’m not arguing either from a party political point of view. Johnson won in 2019 with a promise of more Government spending, so there was a recognition at that time that the era of austerity had to end - opposition parties have been advocating that for a few years before that and I think it’s reasonable to believe that, for better or worse, the economic condition of the country would have pretty different if, say, a Labour/Lib Dem coalition had been in power from 2015.

As for Brexit, I agree that the bandwagon for some sort of realignment of our relationship with the EU might have become hard to resist if UKIP had been able to repeat their results of around a decade ago, but I think a non Conservative Government would have pursued a negotiated compromise as opposed to a yes/no vote.

Your last point is one of the great what ifs. The more I look back, I am pretty sure if Blair allowed the referendum in the late 90s, it would have been a resounding yes and today's political climate would have been much different.

[HiVis]

I totally disagree and you are very arrogant to suggest so. I've never mentioned I wish to be objective. I've never witnessed any objectivity in your dire views.

You're not getting a bite from me, go fishing somewhere else

[xsnaggle]

I disagree. Labours policy was the Brexit decision was made by the electorate so let the electorate decide on what form of Brexit they want via a referendum.

That would mean people having to vote between the many different types of Brexit, which is rather out of line with the purpose of referendums, but hey so what? Just change the rules. And when you have the answer to that question have another referendum so anyone who voted for a losing choice in the first vote could then vote yes or no to the one that won the first vote. can say yes or no to the winner.
Then have another one to check if the answer you got for the first one was right. ( In other words was it the answer you wanted).
Then after you have negotiated a new treaty with the EU have a referendum so the people can vote on what they are actually going to get.
(And keep having them until you (The EU) get the answer they want, like they said they would keep doing with Eire when the population rejected the Euro.)