The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

[Loramski]

I agree with the mix of players for this formation has to be right. especially as we are using a double pivot in midfield - if the wing backs are defenders first then we would basically have 7 outfield players to defend and only 3 to attack.
that makes our attacks far too predictable and it is impossible to create any sort of pressure. so the ball is continually coming back at the defence.
when the u23s have used the formation well in recent weeks the wing backs have always joined in the attacks and overlapped. the extra options in attack has meant that when attacks break down its quickly recycled into another attack. we didn't see that at all against Huddersfield.
if the wing backs are too defensive, it is actually worse for our defence, as the whole team gets pinned back.

Good post. Even with four at the back I never really get whether a player like Peltier should be commended for his defensive ability or criticised because he's offering so little going forward that he's inviting pressure up his side.

I certainly wasn't advocating five defensive players in a back five, just saying I haven't got a problem if McCarthy would rather have a full back who can push on than a winger or midfielder in that position. It would seem to offer more flexibility that way if you want to change to a four or if you're under pressure late in a game. As you say though, it does need to be the right type of full back or you're never going to create enough pressure and chances.

[Rjk]

Good post. Even with four at the back I never really get whether a player like Peltier should be commended for his defensive ability or criticised because he's offering so little going forward that he's inviting pressure up his side.

I certainly wasn't advocating five defensive players in a back five, just saying I haven't got a problem if McCarthy would rather have a full back who can push on than a winger or midfielder in that position. It would seem to offer more flexibility that way if you want to change to a four or if you're under pressure late in a game. As you say though, it does need to be the right type of full back or you're never going to create enough pressure and chances.

Yep I agree - nothing wrong with it being a full back in there - as long as they are a genuine 2-way player so they can influence the game going forward. Joe Bennett for example was doing really well before his injury.

[Loramski]

Yep I agree - nothing wrong with it being a full back in there - as long as they are a genuine 2-way player so they can influence the game going forward. Joe Bennett for example was doing really well before his injury.

I think him and Ng would've struggled to get forward much on Friday. I reckon the wing backs' effectiveness is largely dependant on the team playing well as a whole rather than the other way round although I might be talking rubbish there.

Highlights of the under-23s win over Watford are here.

https://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/vide...a-cc2bf408ded3

[Rjk]

I think him and Ng would've struggled to get forward much on Friday. I reckon the wing backs' effectiveness is largely dependant on the team playing well as a whole rather than the other way round although I might be talking rubbish there.

Highlights of the under-23s win over Watford are here.

https://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/vide...a-cc2bf408ded3

It was interesting to note that yesterday RB Leipzig, (who play 3-4-2-1 formation that I think clearly indicates that Nagelsmann is a student of the Mick McCarthy way of playing) opted for a winger and a defensive midfielder as their 2 wing backs - and had 2 fullbacks and one centre back in the back 3.


Fair enough that didn't work for them either, but I think it shows the opposite end of whatever spectrum starts with us having 4 centre backs on the pitch + whatever Sang is and ends with their 1 centre back and 2 full backs.

[Loramski]

It was interesting to note that yesterday RB Leipzig, (who play 3-4-2-1 formation that I think clearly indicates that Nagelsmann is a student of the Mick McCarthy way of playing) opted for a winger and a defensive midfielder as their 2 wing backs - and had 2 fullbacks and one centre back in the back 3.


Fair enough that didn't work for them either, but I think it shows the opposite end of whatever spectrum starts with us having 4 centre backs on the pitch + whatever Sang is and ends with their 1 centre back and 2 full backs.

Definitely, I can imagine there are plenty of ways to play that system. I've no idea what McCarthy is thinking in terms of next season but playing four centre halves and then having to bring on Pack for Wilson because central midfield is getting overrun is a bit worrying looking forward.

I don't want to be too cynical about McCarthy yet. He can pretty much only play the cards he's been dealt for now, results have been great and he's stuck a couple of youngsters in when Warnock wouldn't have. Hopefully he'll decide there's another answer to the problem of players continually turning over possession other than just bringing on more players to win it back.

He only needs to keep watching the under-23 and Academy games to realise there's a different way forward here. Talented youngsters coming through and some of them have been playing the same kind of football together since they were 7 or 8. As I said earlier, he's watching them play and train regularly now so he'll know what they're about. Even if some of them don't turn out to be as good as expected, the least we should be doing is moving towards a style of play that will give them every opportunity to flourish.