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Sorry to facts get in the way of your and Jon1959's political prejudices, but pensioner poverty has significantly reduced under the Tories.Originally Posted by Dorcus
Again, don't argue with me, argue with those notorious Tory rotters at the Joseph Rowntree Foundation.
https://www.jrf.org.uk/data
Indeed, whilst poverty rates are fairly consistent across the board, it's generally recognised that older person poverty rates have improved in recent years with things like the triple lock pension.
You are not getting in the way of anything.
You are, though, changing the subject - again. Is deflection your middle name?
Changing rates of pensioner poverty is an interesting subject.
It just isn't the one Dorcus and I were commenting on. That was LOM's Tory world view and opposition to collectivism or an active state - despite his constant denials!
Joseph Rowntree showing rates of pensioner poverty rising. What it doesn't show is the effect of 12 years of hollowed out public services that leave the growing poor (pensioners or otherwise) increasingly dependent on friends, family, neighbours or foodbanks where they are 'lucky' enough to have that.
https://www.jrf.org.uk/data/pensioner-poverty-rates
It's not changing the subject. You and Dorcus turned it into a party political issue and the fact is that poverty rates under the current administration is lower than it was under the previous.
Of course, there are lies, damned lies and statistics, and depending on the time frame nearly every statistic can tell an opposite story.
Pensioner poverty is slightly rising for example - True
Pensioner povery is also consistently lower under the Conservatives than Labour - also true.
What isn't true, or helpful, is too purely suggest the answer lies in party politics, because plainly it doesnt. THAT is selling a lie to pensioners.
To quote another contributor from this parish: 'Absolute bollocks!'
I was talking about political values not individual policies. Although I am certain that poor pensioners would get more support and respect under a Labour government than a Tory one - even if only marginally.
The issue you commented on (quoting Dorcus who quoted me in response to LOM) was about whether the government (the state, collective responsibility and provision) should be the answer to individual hardship and distress, or whether it should fall to friends, family or neighbours. LOM thinks the latter. He thinks we should not always expect our government to act. You clearly share that view - although you come at it from the angle that it makes little or no difference what sort of government we have.
THAT is selling a lie to pensioners.
I must be looking in the wrong place on that link, because I see something different to you. What it shows to me is that pensioner poverty was very high when the Blair Government came into office in 1997, then started to fall dramatically before a bit of a rise around the 2008 crash, but then started dropping again by 2010. The downward trend continued through the years of the coalition Government, but ever since we’ve had a majority Tory Government (and for the two years of the May minority Government) the trend has been upwards.
Yep,
Two ways of looking at it; Higher and stable under Major. Generally consistently fell under Labour, but still higher on average than the post 2010 Tories, who generally kept it stable with slight rise recently.
Both are of these statements are true: Labour generally lowered pensioner poverty. Pensioner poverty rate generally lower under the Tories.
It's almost as if reality is not black and white, and these are nuanced issues that can be interpreted in different ways.
If I'm perfectly honest I think both parties do 'okay' on pensioner poverty. The bigger issue for me is child poverty. On that, as you can see both parties have resolutely failed to make much of a dent into it.
It's worth noting this is relative poverty too.
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