Ravel Morrison

[J R Hartley]

Think Gary Neville considered or offered to take him in and live with him.

Easy for people to judge him as a complete waste without knowing the full facts. Simon Jordan slamming into him this week.

I just don't get it.

Exactly. I dont mind Jordan actually, he doesnt sit on the fence like some pundits, but the likes of him have no empathy with council estate kids. He was brought up in a leafy suburb in London and his old man had a few quid. He wouldnt understand the struggles of someone like Morrison, or Rashfrord, Sterling,etc.

When I was younger a boy I knew from the Gellidaeg estate got invited down to Swansea for a weeks trial when he was 16. Never turned up. Everyone call him a waste of space, how could he pass that chance up.etc but the truth was he had no father, his mother was struggling and quite simply they couldnt afford the bus fare to get him down to Swansea every day. Hes dead now too, the drugs had him. Had he been able to go for the trial who knows how his life would have turned out.

[WJ99mobile]

Exactly. I dont mind Jordan actually, he doesnt sit on the fence like some pundits, but the likes of him have no empathy with council estate kids. He was brought up in a leafy suburb in London and his old man had a few quid. He wouldnt understand the struggles of someone like Morrison, or Rashfrord, Sterling,etc.

When I was younger a boy I knew from the Gellidaeg estate got invited down to Swansea for a weeks trial when he was 16. Never turned up. Everyone call him a waste of space, how could he pass that chance up.etc but the truth was he had no father, his mother was struggling and quite simply they couldnt afford the bus fare to get him down to Swansea every day. Hes dead now too, the drugs had him. Had he been able to go for the trial who knows how his life would have turned out.

I totally agree with you on barriers for poorer people but different though with Ravel - he’s had all the best people around him to support him since being at Man Utd. That includes mental and social support. He had more opportunities to take the right paths in life more than Joe blogs on the street and still managed to choose the wrong option time and time again.

It’s clear he has problems but for some strange reason he has an extra level of sympathy just because he’s a footballer.

Gary’s spot on let’s just hope he can enjoy the rest of his life.

[Tuerto]

I totally agree with you on barriers for poorer people but different though with Ravel - he’s had all the best people around him to support him since being at Man Utd. That includes mental and social support. He had more opportunities to take the right paths in life more than Joe blogs on the street and still managed to choose the wrong option time and time again.

It’s clear he has problems but for some strange reason he has an extra level of sympathy just because he’s a footballer.

Gary’s spot on let’s just hope he can enjoy the rest of his life.

The problem is, that if the parenting is non existent and a young person has no role model, or a person to love them back and show an interest, show pride etc, then all of the external care in the world isn't going to help some people. Look at the care system, education etc. Plenty of kids from socially disadvantaged backgrounds fail, because they simply aren't shown enough love and attention, as well as discipline. I was skint growing up. same as plenty on here, but i had great parents. Made a massive difference.

[J R Hartley]

I totally agree with you on barriers for poorer people but different though with Ravel - he’s had all the best people around him to support him since being at Man Utd. That includes mental and social support. He had more opportunities to take the right paths in life more than Joe blogs on the street and still managed to choose the wrong option time and time again.

It’s clear he has problems but for some strange reason he has an extra level of sympathy just because he’s a footballer.

Gary’s spot on let’s just hope he can enjoy the rest of his life.

I have sympathy for all children born into a life of such instability, I wouldn't say he gets extra sympathy but because hes a professional footballer he has more people talking about him. Obviously his profile is obviously bigger than your average Joe Bloggs. Also, I disagree about him getting extra sympathy. For every person showing him some sympathy and empathy there's a hundred people wanting to knock him. Ive seen or heard whole TV or radio shows dedicated to kicking the bloke when hes down. Only this week Simon Jordan was putting the boots into him.

He can have all the support in the world, and he is fortunate in that regard, but maybe its too late, he was already the person he is before he started kicking a football for Manchester United.

Your childhood is what shapes you for the rest of your life and by all accounts he had a horrific childhood.

[AfricanBluebird]

I have sympathy for all children born into a life of such instability, I wouldn't say he gets extra sympathy but because hes a professional footballer he has more people talking about him. Obviously his profile is obviously bigger than your average Joe Bloggs. Also, I disagree about him getting extra sympathy. For every person showing him some sympathy and empathy there's a hundred people wanting to knock him. Ive seen or heard whole TV or radio shows dedicated to kicking the bloke when hes down. Only this week Simon Jordan was putting the boots into him.

He can have all the support in the world, and he is fortunate in that regard, but maybe its too late, he was already the person he is before he started kicking a football for Manchester United.

Your childhood is what shapes you for the rest of your life and by all accounts he had a horrific childhood.

You know this thread shows why I love this board.

While some slam someone like Ravel, people on this board offer a more compassionate viewpoint which is so refreshing.

As a qualified child development specialist, I can tell you some of these observations are spot on.

Early childhood neglect, trauma and what we call 'attachment disorders' are significant factors in children growing up with huge problems. It's NOT their fault.

While poverty can play a part in childhood neglect it's not always down to poverty either but parenting, circumstances and other factors.

I do a lot of work with young people who have been brought up in 'institutional' care. The problems they have as young adults are significant and even those who went to well funded and materially rich 'institutions' have similar but more nuanced challenges. I've done studies about this and one reason why the 193 UN signatories has committed (in 2019) to end institutional care.

Same for kids who bounce around foster care placements.

Those early years are SO important. And having a caring, attentive and consistent care giver (whether both parents, a single parent, kinship carer or foster carer) is critical for healthy development and attachment.

If anyone wants to pick my brains, challenge me or simply have a discussion, if it's area you're interested in, please drop me a DM.

[Jimmy the Jock]

You know this thread shows why I love this board.

While some slam someone like Ravel, people on this board offer a more compassionate viewpoint which is so refreshing.

As a qualified child development specialist, I can tell you some of these observations are spot on.

Early childhood neglect, trauma and what we call 'attachment disorders' are significant factors in children growing up with huge problems. It's NOT their fault.

While poverty can play a part in childhood neglect it's not always down to poverty either but parenting, circumstances and other factors.

I do a lot of work with young people who have been brought up in 'institutional' care. The problems they have as young adults are significant and even those who went to well funded and materially rich 'institutions' have similar but more nuanced challenges. I've done studies about this and one reason why the 193 UN signatories has committed (in 2019) to end institutional care.

Same for kids who bounce around foster care placements.

Those early years are SO important. And having a caring, attentive and consistent care giver (whether both parents, a single parent, kinship carer or foster carer) is critical for healthy development and attachment.

If anyone wants to pick my brains, challenge me or simply have a discussion, if it's area you're interested in, please drop me a DM.

Thats a great post.
The first 5 years of a childs life are the most formative . We should be taught that at school .
Most of us go into parenting without a clue.

[lardy]

Thats a great post.
The first 5 years of a childs life are the most formative . We should be taught that at school .
Most of us go into parenting without a clue.

Ah bollocks, my son just turned 5.

[Citizen's Nephew]

Ah bollocks, my son just turned 5.

[Citizen's Nephew]

Thats a great post.
The first 5 years of a childs life are the most formative . We should be taught that at school .
Most of us go into parenting without a clue.

It is, and this thread is pretty great too. There've been some other really great posts too from JR, Demb, TOBW & Tuerto that show compassion, empathy, and understanding. I'm genuinely moved.

Up-to-date figures are going to be worse but in 2019, there were a total of 72,000 people in jail custody and 22,000 people with an open mental health case. This means that between 2009 and 2019, the number of incarcerated individuals decreased while the number of incarcerated individuals with an open mental health case increased.

It's scandalous. When it comes to personality disorders (and I'm convinced there are quite a few footballers - both men and women who fall into this category) 60-70% of prisoners and about 50% of offenders managed by providers of probation services have a personality disorder. Trying to help or treat someone with a PD is as challenging as trying to help someone with drug addiction. Quite often it's both. Prison makes this much worse.

I love the film Trainspotting (TS1 & TS2) and I'm always reminded of the scene where Renton says “The streets are awash with drugs you can have for unhappiness and pain, and we took them all. F*ck it, we would have injected vitamin C if only they'd made it illegal.” When you're in pain, either mental or physical (or both) then it really isn't a question of seeing the good stuff - you just feel pain.

Of course, prison's a fab place to help you deal with that sh*t and you're bound to come out an upstanding member of a smug society you can raise a legal glass of drug to in the nearest pub. Yay!

[the other bob wilson]

Exactly. I dont mind Jordan actually, he doesnt sit on the fence like some pundits, but the likes of him have no empathy with council estate kids. He was brought up in a leafy suburb in London and his old man had a few quid. He wouldnt understand the struggles of someone like Morrison, or Rashfrord, Sterling,etc.

When I was younger a boy I knew from the Gellidaeg estate got invited down to Swansea for a weeks trial when he was 16. Never turned up. Everyone call him a waste of space, how could he pass that chance up.etc but the truth was he had no father, his mother was struggling and quite simply they couldnt afford the bus fare to get him down to Swansea every day. Hes dead now too, the drugs had him. Had he been able to go for the trial who knows how his life would have turned out.

I'm lucky in that I had a good, settled upbringing, have never been into drugs and wasn't too much into drink at the age of sixteen. Yet, with all of these advantages, I think I would have found the thought of a week's trial at a club, even one as close as Swansea where I could, presumably, come home every night, something of an ordeal and I'm fairly sure I wouldn't have been able to do myself justice when it came to football.

Thinking about Craig Bellamy, the very fact he was able to cope with a move to Norwich (I've been there once and it took almost as long to get there as it did when I went to Edinburgh!) at sixteen tells you he had every chance of making it even if he hadn't been born with the talent he had.

It's hard to see how Morrison will suddenly become the player he could be (although he's still only twenty eight, so I suppose there's a slight chance he could do) and, if he doesn't, he's going to spend the second half of his life thinking of all of the opportunities he missed - that will be bad enough for him, he hardly needs others hammering home something that he must already know himself.