This flight to Rwanda

[JamesWales]

There’s a culture war to be won though and Tories in trouble (especially this Tory party) will turn to the immigration card because, sadly, it will help recreate the spirit of Brexit Britain 2016 - immigration played a decisive part in the outcome of the Referendum and then it just stopped being mentioned almost as if some were embarrassed by their behaviour during the campaign. Will Self was right, if you were a racist, what was the point of voting remain? I still believe that while it’s completely wrong to suggest all leave voters were racists, I certainly think there were enough of them to account for the difference in the vote between the two sides .

Seems like there’s been developments overnight anyway.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61806383

Jesus...

"I can't believe the other side waging a culture way!" followed by wild accusations of leave voters being racist (with zero evidence) on a topic that is nothing to do with the referendum (illegal immigration is an issue in or out of the EU and globally) and bafflingly backed up by millionnaire EU home owning Will Self, as if that somehow gives the point legitimacy.

Lets break it down:

1 - In respect of immigration, leaving the EU treats people equally wherever they are from. EU immigration policy undeniably favours people from an overwhelmingly white place (the EU) over people from an overwhelmingly non white place (the rest of the world). Without a question, the EU's immigration policy is more racist.

2 - The EU itself has built fences and used water cannon against migrants. I mean, do you guys just have your fingers in your ears and your hands over your eyes or what? Have you seen what France did to people in Calais? Spain in Melilla? Greece in Turkey? Poland at their borders? Honestly, I can spell it out to you, but it's better you look yourself.

3 - Some of you buy into this absolute myth that Britain is some racist hell hole, for what? For not supporting endless numbers of people arriving via the channel having paid criminal gangs? By nature all of the people will not be British citizens, but doing something about it doesn't make a country racist, it makes them responsible. Putting aside the irony that it's white liberals that are telling the immigrants how racist our country is (in which case why are they coming here), there is no basis for the argument. None at all.

Honestly, these flights will take off, and rightly so. You cannot have a situation where anyone who wants to come here can do so. It is a totally unsustainable situation and you need to come up with some better policies than 'uR aLl RacIsTs' because if and when Labour are in power, there is no chance whatsoever they would tolerate this either.

[the other bob wilson]

Jesus...

"I can't believe the other side waging a culture way!" followed by wild accusations of leave voters being racist (with zero evidence) on a topic that is nothing to do with the referendum (illegal immigration is an issue in or out of the EU and globally) and bafflingly backed up by millionnaire EU home owning Will Self, as if that somehow gives the point legitimacy.

Lets break it down:

1 - In respect of immigration, leaving the EU treats people equally wherever they are from. EU immigration policy undeniably favours people from an overwhelmingly white place (the EU) over people from an overwhelmingly non white place (the rest of the world). Without a question, the EU's immigration policy is more racist.

2 - The EU itself has built fences and used water cannon against migrants. I mean, do you guys just have your fingers in your ears and your hands over your eyes or what? Have you seen what France did to people in Calais? Spain in Melilla? Greece in Turkey? Poland at their borders? Honestly, I can spell it out to you, but it's better you look yourself.

3 - Some of you buy into this absolute myth that Britain is some racist hell hole, for what? For not supporting endless numbers of people arriving via the channel having paid criminal gangs? By nature all of the people will not be British citizens, but doing something about it doesn't make a country racist, it makes them responsible. Putting aside the irony that it's white liberals that are telling the immigrants how racist our country is (in which case why are they coming here), there is no basis for the argument. None at all.

Honestly, these flights will take off, and rightly so. You cannot have a situation where anyone who wants to come here can do so. It is a totally unsustainable situation and you need to come up with some better policies than 'uR aLl RacIsTs' because if and when Labour are in power, there is no chance whatsoever they would tolerate this either.

Talking of wild

I’m not going to apologise for having a different view to you - in fact, I’m pleased I have if you don’t think that anyone voted in the Referendum (or in any election) on racial grounds.

We’ve got a UK Government that dabbles when it comes to the really important issues and can only come out with slogans, gimmicks, law breaking and attacks on the “woke” by means of policies - all the while the official opposition treads on eggshells for fear of offending someone.

[JamesWales]

Talking of wild

I’m not going to apologise for having a different view to you - in fact, I’m pleased I have if you don’t think that anyone voted in the Referendum (or in any election) on racial grounds.

We’ve got a UK Government that dabbles when it comes to the really important issues and can only come out with slogans, gimmicks law breaking and attacks on the “woke” by means of policies - all the while the official opposition treads on eggshells for fear of offending someone.

Bob, it is the party that you vote for that was recently chastised for racism by the EHRC - but I would never make nudge nudge wink wink allegations that all Labour voters are racists, or perhaps some but not all are etc. Honestly, the lack of self awareness of some of you guys!

Of course there are some racists in any society, but your argument is weak and unfair to just throw it at one side, and it is nothing to do with this case, as you well know.

You don't have any evidence to support what you say, which rather suggests you have no solution to the topic in hand, so are merely distracting by casting aspersions to deflect away from that?

[the other bob wilson]

Bob, it is the party that you vote for that was recently chastised for racism by the EHRC - but I would never make nudge nudge wink wink allegations that all Labour voters are racists, or perhaps some but not all are etc. Honestly, the lack of self awareness of some of you guys!

Of course there are some racists in any society, but your argument is weak and unfair to just throw it at one side, and it is nothing to do with this case, as you well know.

You don't have any evidence to support what you say, which rather suggests you have no solution to the topic in hand, so are merely distracting by casting aspersions to deflect away from that?

You’re making huge assumptions there. First, the only claim I’ve made about the Labour Party in this thread is that they seem scared of their own shadow under Starmer and I’ve never denied that there was a problem under Corbyn when it came to anti Semitism. Also, I don’t know how I can make it more clear that I don’t believe all Leave voters and Tories to be racists, but I’ll always believe that the way the Referendum campaign was conducted put immigration front and centre as an issue and, no matter how much you try to deny it, that among those that centre on immigration as a big issue in this country, there are a proportion who do so on racist grounds.

Do you think the Government do not know this? Do you not think that they know there are a small percentage of easy votes to be gained by pandering to those who rate immigration as among the greatest threats facing the country today? Don’t you think it a bit fishy that the fly em to Rwanda scheme didn’t materialise until Johnson was under increased partygate pressure? Finally, as far as the “well, what would you do?” line that is parroted by the Government’s supporters goes, were any of you proposing the Rwanda solution before Johnson and co did? Of course you weren’t, because it’s a bonkers idea designed purely to move the discussion onto something the Government are happier talking about.

[JamesWales]

444 people crossed the channel yesterday by the way. Come on lads, whats the solution? Or is there no problem at all?
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...dc8d9c9b8fc052

[Rjk]

444 people crossed the channel yesterday by the way. Come on lads, whats the solution? Or is there no problem at all?
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...dc8d9c9b8fc052

clearly trying and failing to fly 6 people to Rwanda isn't the solution then.

I doubt anyone trying to get to the UK has any idea about the latest daft policies dreamt up by this incompetent government, this policy is just here to get newspaper inches and appear tough on "immigrants" (refugees)

[JamesWales]

clearly trying and failing to fly 6 people to Rwanda isn't the solution then.

I doubt anyone trying to get to the UK has any idea about the latest daft policies dreamt up by this incompetent government, this policy is just here to get newspaper inches and appear tough on "immigrants" (refugees)

Unless you hadn't noticed, no flights have happened yet.

[Rjk]

Unless you hadn't noticed, no flights have happened yet.

the government have done ZERO analysis of how running these flights will affect the number of people crossing the channel.
I would suggest that almost all the people crossing would have zero idea the policy even exists, and those that do know will probably take their chances.

[stevo]

Jesus...

"I can't believe the other side waging a culture way!" followed by wild accusations of leave voters being racist (with zero evidence) on a topic that is nothing to do with the referendum (illegal immigration is an issue in or out of the EU and globally) and bafflingly backed up by millionnaire EU home owning Will Self, as if that somehow gives the point legitimacy.

Lets break it down:

1 - In respect of immigration, leaving the EU treats people equally wherever they are from. EU immigration policy undeniably favours people from an overwhelmingly white place (the EU) over people from an overwhelmingly non white place (the rest of the world). Without a question, the EU's immigration policy is more racist.

2 - The EU itself has built fences and used water cannon against migrants. I mean, do you guys just have your fingers in your ears and your hands over your eyes or what? Have you seen what France did to people in Calais? Spain in Melilla? Greece in Turkey? Poland at their borders? Honestly, I can spell it out to you, but it's better you look yourself.

3 - Some of you buy into this absolute myth that Britain is some racist hell hole, for what? For not supporting endless numbers of people arriving via the channel having paid criminal gangs? By nature all of the people will not be British citizens, but doing something about it doesn't make a country racist, it makes them responsible. Putting aside the irony that it's white liberals that are telling the immigrants how racist our country is (in which case why are they coming here), there is no basis for the argument. None at all.

Honestly, these flights will take off, and rightly so. You cannot have a situation where anyone who wants to come here can do so. It is a totally unsustainable situation and you need to come up with some better policies than 'uR aLl RacIsTs' because if and when Labour are in power, there is no chance whatsoever they would tolerate this either.

You make some interesting points, but why are you, the tories and the rest of their supporters convinced that the Rwanda scheme will deter people crossing the channel? All you seem to come back with is - what’s your solution?

Well, if you can’t stop people crossing then there’s no solution to that problem.

But then sending them on to a corrupt country at exorbitant costs is immorally wrong.