London Demonstrations....

[Elwood Blues]

Why-To satisfy your demands? Just read through the posts and do your own detective work, Honey.

I asked a polite question,not a demand.

What's with this ridiculous "Honey" business.

Typical of the rudeness that permeates the board these days.

[Elwood Blues]

This is what we've become;-

https://twitter.com/dannywallace/sta...73008504520705

Not "we" actually.

Those Boneheads from the EDF et al have always been like that.

And they've been there since I was a lad (and before).

Moseley and the black shirts before my time.

Skinheads,National Fron,BNP who I remember.

Various left wing groups over the years

In these social media and mobile phone days it it easier for the moron extremists of left or right to mobilise.

But of course many (such as good old James O'Brien who is somewhere in that twitter feed) see it all through the prism of Brexit.

It is far more complex than that

[the other bob wilson]

Not "we" actually.

Those Boneheads from the EDF et al have always been like that.

And they've been there since I was a lad (and before).

Moseley and the black shirts before my time.

Skinheads,National Fron,BNP who I remember.

Various left wing groups over the years

In these social media and mobile phone days it it easier for the moron extremists of left or right to mobilise.

But of course many (such as good old James O'Brien who is somewhere in that twitter feed) see it all through the prism of Brexit.

It is far more complex than that

Yes, we. Read the Tweet, it's ridiculous that the society we all live in has got to the stage where there are so many people out there who are willing to defend such barmy logic simply because they hate what the other side stands for. Somebody asked in another thread how the UK of the late 2010s/early 2020s will be viewed in fifty years time, I wouldn't be surprised if it is as a nasty, polarised, paranoid country where people on either side of the argument had lost trace of the decency, tolerance and inclusiveness which, despite its problems, was once there at its heart.

I've never known the country as divided as it is now - I'm as guilty of it as anyone as I, like so many others on both sides resort to feeble whataboutery to make a point against the other lot who, increasingly, I have grown to despise. We are in a vicious circle and, although you, apparently, want to deny it, the Brexit referendum was the catalyst for it all.

[trampie09]

Yes, we. Read the Tweet, it's ridiculous that the society we all live in has got to the stage where there are so many people out there who are willing to defend such barmy logic simply because they hate what the other side stands for. Somebody asked in another thread how the UK of the late 2010s/early 2020s will be viewed in fifty years time, I wouldn't be surprised if it is as a nasty, polarised, paranoid country where people on either side of the argument had lost trace of the decency, tolerance and inclusiveness which, despite its problems, was once there at its heart.

I've never known the country as divided as it is now - I'm as guilty of it as anyone as I, like so many others on both sides resort to feeble whataboutery to make a point against the other lot who, increasingly, I have grown to despise. We are in a vicious circle and, although you, apparently, want to deny it, the Brexit referendum was the catalyst for it all.

People vote for who they dislike the least these days and not who they like the most, politicians do negative campaigning dissing the other side and not saying what their party can do but what the other parties can't do in their opinion, it is the case here in the UK and the in USA (probably the rest of the World as well), it just adds to division and negativity and it's sadly where we are at in this day and age and it's in every walk of life.

[celticknight]

People vote for who they dislike the least these days and not who they like the most, politicians do negative campaigning dissing the other side and not saying what their party can do but what the other parties can't do in their opinion, it is the case here in the UK and the in USA (probably the rest of the World as well), it just adds to division and negativity and it's sadly where we are at in this day and age and it's in every walk of life.

In the run up to the last election any political conversation I had with strangers always had them insisting they tell me how much they hated Jeremy Corbyn. Never talked about the Tories or why they were voting for them, they were just "venting" about how much that man would set the country back. I guess people really like complaining.

[Rjk]

In the run up to the last election any political conversation I had with strangers always had them insisting they tell me how much they hated Jeremy Corbyn. Never talked about the Tories or why they were voting for them, they were just "venting" about how much that man would set the country back. I guess people really like complaining.

I found the same - from people who couldn't explain which of Corbyns policies they didn't like, literally couldn't name one.

[Heisenberg]

a high % of BLM campaigners / supporters ive seen posting have distanced themselves from the actions and have said the " extremists " ( they have called them antifa aswell ) are nothing to do with them



indeed, imho the more extremists, i know its been used in the police for a few years now, as a few of my friends are police and if they have to police a protest , the last i remember was last year, they mostly moan about antifa as they are only interested in only one thing, always come prepared with masks to hide faces

blue matt... The man who always "knows" someone that can back-up his argument. I know a copper who told me that you like wearing tutus whilst eating hotdogs btw.

I'd love for you to link us to the posts you've seen by BLM campaigners who have "distanced themselves" from 'Antifa' as I find it very hard to believe. From what I can gather, 'Antifa' is barely a presence in the UK. Just had a look to see if they even have an online presence in the UK. Less than 600 FB followers and a 'parody' Twitter account run by the Alt-Right.

Think someone's telling porkies, Matthew.

[Dorcus]

I found the same - from people who couldn't explain which of Corbyns policies they didn't like, literally couldn't name one.

Absolutely true and I imagine they're all regretting it now. The sad thing is it'll only get worse

[Rjk]

Absolutely true and I imagine they're all regretting it now. The sad thing is it'll only get worse

people don't regret things any more. they doubledown. they'll be busy finding reasons why this CF is all Corbyns fault to make themselves feel clever

[celticknight]

people don't regret things any more. they doubledown. they'll be busy finding reasons why this CF is all Corbyns fault to make themselves feel clever

Very true. You see it with the UK's coronavirus response, any attempt to question the governments plan was met with screams of "don't politicise this!". They can't accept the idea that the people they voted for might have handled something badly, so automatically went on the defensive.

A political party's own supporters holding it to account used to be a powerful tool for holding them in check. Without it, you get a borderline dictatorship like you see what's happening in the US.

[trampie09]

I found the same - from people who couldn't explain which of Corbyns policies they didn't like, literally couldn't name one.

Labours manifesto at the last General Election was very good.

[cyril evans awaydays]

people don't regret things any more. they doubledown. they'll be busy finding reasons why this CF is all Corbyns fault to make themselves feel clever

Sort of missing the point though. An 80 seat majority did not come out of thin air. Every policy in the manifesto may be credible in its own right but when bundled together it has the appearance of a kid being told to write down everything he wanted from Father Christmas.

The Tories neutralised the NHS as a Labour positive and the face both ways Brexit Policy was unsurprisingly nibbled away on one side as the Remain Left moved to the Nationalists and LibDem/Greens and got gobbled whole by Farage's manipulation and the Get Brexit Done message that dominated the election.

Corbyn's credibility in the campaign never really recovered from his mauling by Andrew Neil over some stuff that should be bread and butter for a party leader. The local party canvassers here just focussed on the merits of the local candidate as they got battered about Corbyn on the doorstep.

Blame the media, blame the people who fled Labour and who might be regretting it now by all means but Corbyn has to take a measure of the blame for allowing these incompetents and charlatans free rein for the next 4 1/2 years.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Sort of missing the point though. An 80 seat majority did not come out of thin air. Every policy in the manifesto may be credible in its own right but when bundled together it has the appearance of a kid being told to write down everything he wanted from Father Christmas.

The Tories neutralised the NHS as a Labour positive and the face both ways Brexit Policy was unsurprisingly nibbled away on one side as the Remain Left moved to the Nationalists and LibDem/Greens and got gobbled whole by Farage's manipulation and the Get Brexit Done message that dominated the election.

Corbyn's credibility in the campaign never really recovered from his mauling by Andrew Neil over some stuff that should be bread and butter for a party leader. The local party canvassers here just focussed on the merits of the local candidate as they got battered about Corbyn on the doorstep.

Blame the media, blame the people who fled Labour and who might be regretting it now by all means but Corbyn has to take a measure of the blame for allowing these incompetents and charlatans free rein for the next 4 1/2 years.

Corbyn , Abbott and the shadow front bench were incompetent

[J R Hartley]

Black footballer and BLM activist Karl Henry calls out Twitters answer to Sludge - Gary Linekar

https://twitter.com/karlhenry08/stat...11615445450752

[J R Hartley]

Speaks a lot of sense Karl Henry

https://twitter.com/karlhenry08/stat...50932727578629

[the other bob wilson]

Speaks a lot of sense Karl Henry

https://twitter.com/karlhenry08/stat...50932727578629

I agree with that tweet, but I don't get the one about Lineker, what did he say that was wrong?

[the other bob wilson]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-palmer-plaque

[Rjk]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-palmer-plaque

16 pints tells a bit of a story there.

[J R Hartley]

I agree with that tweet, but I don't get the one about Lineker, what did he say that was wrong?

It’s what he didn’t say rather than what he did say. He wouldn’t condemn the violence the week before at the BLM marches, in fact he was in denial there was even a social distancing issue, but was straight out of the blocks as he usually is for last weekends disgraceful scenes, hence Karl Henry pulling him up on it.

[the other bob wilson]

It’s what he didn’t say rather than what he did say. He wouldn’t condemn the violence the week before at the BLM marches, in fact he was in denial there was even a social distancing issue, but was straight out of the blocks as he usually is for last weekends disgraceful scenes, hence Karl Henry pulling him up on it.

So, it's just more whataboutism really isn't it? The fact that Lineker, apparently, didn't criticise the violence by BLM sympathisers a week earlier makes what he said this weekend unacceptable . If Lineker supported the violence seen by a minority of BLM demonstrators, I'd say that was wrong, but no more wrong than someone who needed little prompting to condemn them last weekend, but comes across as reluctant to do the same to the far right and football lads lot this weekend.

[J R Hartley]

So, it's just more whataboutism really isn't it? The fact that Lineker, apparently, didn't criticise the violence by BLM sympathisers a week earlier makes what he said this weekend unacceptable . If Lineker supported the violence seen by a minority of BLM demonstrators, I'd say that was wrong, but no more wrong than someone who needed little prompting to condemn them last weekend, but comes across as reluctant to do the same to the far right and football lads lot this weekend.

Is that whatabouterry youve just displayed being ironic or was it accidental?

[the other bob wilson]

Is that whatabouterry youve just displayed being ironic or was it accidental?

Why? I don't get why what Lineker might have said just over a week ago makes what he said this weekend worthy of criticism that's all - do you disagree with what he said on Saturday about some football fans?

[J R Hartley]

Why? I don't get why what Lineker might have said just over a week ago makes what he said this weekend worthy of criticism that's all - do you disagree with what he said on Saturday about some football fans?

Not at all, and thats not Henrys point. Henrys point was the violence at both marches needs to be roundly condemned.

He has called out Linekar, I assume, because he has a huge platform, some 7.5m followers and was playing down the violence the week before ("Its only a small minority of protestors", "A lot of people are angry I guess") but getting instantly outraged at the violence this week. Hence, Henry calling him a hypocrite.

[Rjk]

Not at all, and thats not Henrys point. Henrys point was the violence at both marches needs to be roundly condemned.

He has called out Linekar, I assume, because he has a huge platform, some 7.5m followers and was playing down the violence the week before ("Its only a small minority of protestors", "A lot of people are angry I guess") but getting instantly outraged at the violence this week. Hence, Henry calling him a hypocrite.

I didn't see him "instantly getting outraged at the violence this week", rather wearily comparing the drunk fat blokes this weekend with the ones who have been an embarrassment to the England team for the last 30+ years, which seems like a pretty fair comparison on the face of it. but then I've only seen a few tweets of his, I'm not monitoring his timeline 24/7 to be fair.

[the other bob wilson]

I didn't see him "instantly getting outraged at the violence this week", rather wearily comparing the drunk fat blokes this weekend with the ones who have been an embarrassment to the England team for the last 30+ years, which seems like a pretty fair comparison on the face of it. but then I've only seen a few tweets of his, I'm not monitoring his timeline 24/7 to be fair.

My thoughts exactly - I'm not trying to pick an argument here because I acknowledge that these days I'm guilty of seeing who the source of a comment is and reading things into it that might not be there at times as well, it's hard not to do it when everything has become so tribal.