Joe is on a bombing raid

[JamesWales]

Isn't it reassuring to see that the thread designed to knock a US President only stretches to four pages despite the efforts of Trump supporters on here to create something to rival this

https://www.ccmb.co.uk/showthread.ph...d-Trump-thread

That's the way it should be in the UK and, by and large, always was until Trump was elected and became an affront to the whole democratic process.

Doesn't that rather imply that 'Biden supporters' are happy to keep quiet about his indiscretions because of the colour of his rosette, though?

[the other bob wilson]

Doesn't that rather imply that 'Biden supporters' are happy to keep quiet about his indiscretions because of the colour of his rosette, though?

No, it means Trump was unique (worse than Nixon in my opinion), nothing to do with the colour of rosettes - it’s the same in this country at the moment, I was always someone who said you should never vote for just a leader, but, as someone who usually votes Labour, there’s no way I’d vote for them if they had someone like Johnson in charge.

[JamesWales]

No, it means Trump was unique (worse than Nixon in my opinion), nothing to do with the colour of rosettes - it’s the same in this country at the moment, I was always someone who said you should never vote for just a leader, but, as someone who usually votes Labour, there’s no way I’d vote for them if they had someone like Johnson in charge.

What I mean is, in terms of outcomes, bombing other countries, migrant crisis, treatment of refugees at the southern border, isn't the difference pretty limited in terms of outcome, with the difference between Trump and Biden mainly being in rhetoric? I agree, that does matter, but sometimes it seems that what is actually happening matters less than the rhetoric.

Biden does seem somewhat teflon to a lot of it all (as is Boris Johnson of course!)

Out of interest, were you happy to vote for Labour under Corbyn? Not judging, I understand the reasons someone does vote for someone are usually different to the reasons someone else doesn't, I'm just interested.

[jon1959]

What I mean is, in terms of outcomes, bombing other countries, migrant crisis, treatment of refugees at the southern border, isn't the difference pretty limited in terms of outcome, with the difference between Trump and Biden mainly being in rhetoric? I agree, that does matter, but sometimes it seems that what is actually happening matters less than the rhetoric.

There are obviously some areas of overlap between Trump and Biden as they are backed by the Bill and Ben US parties that have developed consensus on a range of policies over decades. Although one leans to the NRA and the other to the AFL-CIO and ACLU.

Despite one pretending to be the anti-establishment outsider and the other pretending to be the new convert to a range of progressive policies, both are elderly white men who have spent most of their lives in and around NY and Washington.

But there are clearly major policy differences too. You can't get much further apart than those two on: climate change, Covid, social and economic support in response to Covid, international collaboration, healthcare, abortion (the Catholic is pro choice, the opportunist Presbyterian is not), undocumented immigrants (Biden for legalising, Trump for criminalising), Iran, guns, and a range of other prominent policies.

They appear to have similar views on the death penalty and the Iraq war (although coming at it from different directions) where it would have been no surprise to see a Trump presidency pull out US troops as Biden did.

And when it comes to personality (which influences everything above) the difference is stark.

[the other bob wilson]

What I mean is, in terms of outcomes, bombing other countries, migrant crisis, treatment of refugees at the southern border, isn't the difference pretty limited in terms of outcome, with the difference between Trump and Biden mainly being in rhetoric? I agree, that does matter, but sometimes it seems that what is actually happening matters less than the rhetoric.

Biden does seem somewhat teflon to a lot of it all (as is Boris Johnson of course!)

Out of interest, were you happy to vote for Labour under Corbyn? Not judging, I understand the reasons someone does vote for someone are usually different to the reasons someone else doesn't, I'm just interested.

I voted for Labour, not Corbyn, in 2017 and 2019, the second time not very enthusiastically at all. I've realised in the last few years that I'm more anti tory than pro Labour and I voted the way I did in 2017 because the Cardiff West constituency, while being a pretty safe Labour seat now, went Conservative in 1983 and so, unless Labour was obviously going to win like they were in 2001 and 2005 when I voted for other parties, I was always aware of the possibility the Tories could sneak in. Now I'm living in the Rhondda, my vote doesn't feel as important in terms of Labour v Conservative and so I did the lazy thing in 2019 and stuck with Labour when I probably should have voted Green or Plaid.

Johnson is the only leader of the Conservative party in my voting life (Ted Heath was their leader in the first election I voted in) who I have voted against as an individual above their party - it goes above party politics with him as far as I'm concerned, he's just completely unfit for the job and a nasty, entitled, selfish piece of work as well.