Starmer will be investigated by Durham Police ( crazy why now )

[HiVis]

What this thread demonstrates is the general public on all parts of the spectrum fail to understand how top civil servants and politicians work day to day. Having working meetings where food and drink is available wouldn't be unusual. Similarly when a party leader meets local party members I'd suggest having food and drink is normal cause of business. This would explain why both Starmer and Johnson believed they weren't guilty of any wrongdoing.

Of course, the court of public opinion argues differently, and it really does depend where you fall on the spectrum on how you determine guilt or otherwise.

Looking objectively either both are guilty are neither are. What is rather telling is this is the main domestic political issue being discussed today and not the government's latest community development Bill, or the oppositions response.

Politics is a murky world where style is clearly more relevant than substance, both to politicians, and their acolytes.

[JamesWales]

What this thread demonstrates is the general public on all parts of the spectrum fail to understand how top civil servants and politicians work day to day. Having working meetings where food and drink is available wouldn't be unusual. Similarly when a party leader meets local party members I'd suggest having food and drink is normal cause of business. This would explain why both Starmer and Johnson believed they weren't guilty of any wrongdoing.

Of course, the court of public opinion argues differently, and it really does depend where you fall on the spectrum on how you determine guilt or otherwise.

Looking objectively either both are guilty are neither are. What is rather telling is this is the main domestic political issue being discussed today and not the government's latest community development Bill, or the oppositions response.

Politics is a murky world where style is clearly more relevant than substance, both to politicians, and their acolytes.

I agree with this.

I think the bad stories are the genuine boozy parties in Downing St, although I dont doubt these happened elsewhere, to happen at the heart of government is inexcusable.

I have less concerns over a birthday cake at lunch and Starmers beer, but the two are fundementally the same for me in moral terms.

[Eric Cartman]

https://twitter.com/RosieisaHolt/sta...98053645185033

Gove certainly hasn't been put off partying.

[HiVis]

https://twitter.com/RosieisaHolt/sta...98053645185033

Gove certainly hasn't been put off partying.

I see you Gove, and raise you Osborne

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitio...eorge-osbourne

[Taunton Blue Genie]

I think it best to await the outcome of the Police investigation to see if there is equivalence between Starmer's and Johnson's actions.

[the other bob wilson]

I think it best to await the outcome of the Police investigation to see if there is equivalence between Starmer's and Johnson's actions.

Agreed, attempts to label the two of them as bad as each other should at least wait until Starmer has had his FPN.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Agreed, attempts to label the two of them as bad as each other should at least wait until Starmer has had his FPN.

Apparently, there is a correlation between intelligence and the appreciation of nuance. Seriously.

[North Cardiff Blue]

What this thread demonstrates is the general public on all parts of the spectrum fail to understand how top civil servants and politicians work day to day. Having working meetings where food and drink is available wouldn't be unusual. Similarly when a party leader meets local party members I'd suggest having food and drink is normal cause of business. This would explain why both Starmer and Johnson believed they weren't guilty of any wrongdoing.

Of course, the court of public opinion argues differently, and it really does depend where you fall on the spectrum on how you determine guilt or otherwise.

Looking objectively either both are guilty are neither are. What is rather telling is this is the main domestic political issue being discussed today and not the government's latest community development Bill, or the oppositions response.

Politics is a murky world where style is clearly more relevant than substance, both to politicians, and their acolytes.

Agreed nothing to see here, Starmer made a fuss though and it's completely backfired either way, he's gone or he's a fibber just like Boris and all the public see it the same, although some will deny this and try and say it's different, as previously went down the hang Boris route.

[Rjk]

Agreed nothing to see here, Starmer made a fuss though and it's completely backfired either way, he's gone or he's a fibber just like Boris and all the public see it the same, although some will deny this and try and say it's different, as previously went down the hang Boris route.

I don't think this has backfired on Starmer.

Chances are he isn't going to get a fine - he stated he would stand down if fined, but didn't have to, this puts additional pressure on Johnson especially if more details of parties emerge or if the photos in the Sue Grey report are particularly damning.

If he does get a fine, he'll stand down. This would ramp the pressure even more on Johnson, and Starmer gets a reputation as being honourable, and can return to front line politics at a later date.

[HiVis]

I don't think this has backfired on Starmer.

Chances are he isn't going to get a fine - he stated he would stand down if fined, but didn't have to, this puts additional pressure on Johnson especially if more details of parties emerge or if the photos in the Sue Grey report are particularly damning.

If he does get a fine, he'll stand down. This would ramp the pressure even more on Johnson, and Starmer gets a reputation as being honourable, and can return to front line politics at a later date.

I can't see Johnson going at all, even if Starmer resigns. Johnson doesn't think he has done anything wrong, despite paying the fine. What we do know is that the electorate will have the final say, and Johnson may or may not be reading the mood of the country, and we'll find out soon enough.

[Rjk]

I can't see Johnson going at all, even if Starmer resigns. Johnson doesn't think he has done anything wrong, despite paying the fine. What we do know is that the electorate will have the final say, and Johnson may or may not be reading the mood of the country, and we'll find out soon enough.

He was under condsiderable pressure before ukraine kicked off, they were close to having enough letters of no confidence, and plenty of back bench tories were worried about the effect he was having on their chances. Several of them said they would wait to see ho the Sue Grey report panned out before deciding.

A pretty terrible local elections result will have done nothing to allay those fears.

By trying to drag Starmer into this as well, they're obviously trying to lessen the impact on Johnson. Assuming Starmer is not fined, this just gives additional ammo to those who want Johnson out if there are further things revealed by the Sue Grey report.

[Hilts]

Agreed nothing to see here, Starmer made a fuss though and it's completely backfired either way, he's gone or he's a fibber just like Boris and all the public see it the same, although some will deny this and try and say it's different, as previously went down the hang Boris route.

No hes either guilty as Johnson and gone and rightly so.

Or hes not and he carries on.

[North Cardiff Blue]

No hes either guilty as Johnson and gone and rightly so.

Or hes not and he carries on.

Same sort of foul, Stammer got a yellow, Boris got a red, Mrs Miggins in the Cotsolds will think they are both dirty buzzards!

In fairness mind the ref had chatted to Boris fifteen times before the red!

[lardy]

Same sort of foul, Stammer got a yellow, Boris got a red, Mrs Miggins in the Cotsolds will think they are both dirty buzzards!

In fairness mind the ref had chatted to Boris fifteen times before the red!

Johnson was finally pushed to resign because he promoted that drunken groper knowing he was a drunken groper, then when he drunkenly groped someone again he demanded of a group of MPs why they hadn't stopped him drunkenly groping when a number of them had actually stepped in to remove him.

That was their final straw and why he left, when it really should have been months ago.

[life on mars]

Agreed nothing to see here, Starmer made a fuss though and it's completely backfired either way, he's gone or he's a fibber just like Boris and all the public see it the same, although some will deny this and try and say it's different, as previously went down the hang Boris route.

His mistake was to call tooooo quickly for the resignation of the PM and Chancellor a the point of investigation of course the tow ae separate in some many ways .

I do think the clamour by Labour on cake gate and resignation just before the election is seen a a canny headline grab in my view it was a mistake as it lets in the critics to say is that all they got , and if one calls for the resignation due to investigation then surely one does the same ??

Bit naïve , and sadly it shows how shallow and cheap point scoring politics has become on both sides .