Snowflake schools

[WJ99mobile]

All kids should be given a copy of 52 Times Britain Was a Bellend. Lots of examples there that certainly don't get taught in schools.

The self deprecating nature of the British is depressing at times

Yes Britain have been arseholes, no different to pretty much any other country on earth.

[Dorcus]

I’ve not got a issue with anything taught in school but Welsh history should be prioritised

There's a very simple but extremely important reason why Welsh "history" isn't prioritised in our schools and thank goodness it isn't. It has absolutely nothing to do with the mere fact we are governed from London.

Like it or not (and there's so very much of it to be embarrassed about) English (and latterly) British history has played an overwhelming contribution to the development of the Western World as it is today. Yes, other countries too, as in France, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Austria, Hungary, Russia, USA etc. However the English/British significance is arguably the most important of it all.

Wales on the other hand, similar to Catalunya, Andorra, Malta, Chad, Bermuda, Lesotho etc etc etc. has played such a miniscule part on the history of the World it would be unnecessary and propernfor it to be included in student's history lessons.

There's a place for local "history" in early years teachings as a warm up to History but it should never ever be integrated into mainstream History lessons except in special contexts as is historically necessary.

Could you imagine how I'll prepared students would be if they learned their own local history as opposed to the important course of events of world History of they lived in Mauritania, Antigua, Turkmenistan, Tonga or Paraguay for example?

[Croesy Blue]

The self deprecating nature of the British is depressing at times

Yes Britain have been arseholes, no different to pretty much any other country on earth.

It’s not self deprecating it’s true and it’s interesting stuff to learn about. Who wants to be taught an edited positive version of what happened rather than the facts.

Cover Belgium, France and Spain as well it’s genuinely interesting history.

The actual “snowflakes” are the ones who want british history taught but through rose coloured glasses.

I’d love to have been taught an actual unbiased version of the English/british role in Ireland.

[Croesy Blue]

There's a very simple but extremely important reason why Welsh "history" isn't prioritised in our schools and thank goodness it isn't. It has absolutely nothing to do with the mere fact we are governed from London.

Like it or not (and there's so very much of it to be embarrassed about) English (and latterly) British history has played an overwhelming contribution to the development of the Western World as it is today. Yes, other countries too, as in France, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Austria, Hungary, Russia, USA etc. However the English/British significance is arguably the most important of it all.

Wales on the other hand, similar to Catalunya, Andorra, Malta, Chad, Bermuda, Lesotho etc etc etc. has played such a miniscule part on the history of the World it would be unnecessary and propernfor it to be included in student's history lessons.

There's a place for local "history" in early years teachings as a warm up to History but it should never ever be integrated into mainstream History lessons except in special contexts as is historically necessary.

Could you imagine how I'll prepared students would be if they learned their own local history as opposed to the important course of events of world History of they lived in Mauritania, Antigua, Turkmenistan, Tonga or Paraguay for example?

Why not teach a bit of both though. The Chartists in wales is a really interesting and important part of history.

[jon1959]

These days if you say you’re British they throw you in jail.

English not British!

[Doucas]

We had our 2 grandchildren over last night to take to the display in Barry.
This diwali celebration thing popped up on the news and they said "ow bamp we were taught about this in school today" , and proceeded to rattle off this big long story about the event.

I said to them, "oh that's interesting, now as its bonfire night, can anyone tell me why we celebrate bonfire night?"

No, they heard of the name guy fawkes but that's it.

Now what is happening here in the world? Uh?
Where my grandkids are taught Asian holiday history but don't know why I've paid £5 per person to go to a firework display?

Cmon mun.

Is it possible your grandkids just forgot what they were told?

[Pearcey3]

Only utter pricks use the term "snowflake" in 2021.

+1

[Croesy Blue]

English not British!

Was tailoring the response

[Divine Wright]

There's a very simple but extremely important reason why Welsh "history" isn't prioritised in our schools and thank goodness it isn't. It has absolutely nothing to do with the mere fact we are governed from London.

Like it or not (and there's so very much of it to be embarrassed about) English (and latterly) British history has played an overwhelming contribution to the development of the Western World as it is today. Yes, other countries too, as in France, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Austria, Hungary, Russia, USA etc. However the English/British significance is arguably the most important of it all.

Wales on the other hand, similar to Catalunya, Andorra, Malta, Chad, Bermuda, Lesotho etc etc etc. has played such a miniscule part on the history of the World it would be unnecessary and propernfor it to be included in student's history lessons.

There's a place for local "history" in early years teachings as a warm up to History but it should never ever be integrated into mainstream History lessons except in special contexts as is historically necessary.

Could you imagine how I'll prepared students would be if they learned their own local history as opposed to the important course of events of world History of they lived in Mauritania, Antigua, Turkmenistan, Tonga or Paraguay for example?

Seems a bit absolute this opinion. I always have my doubts about absolutists.

Then again, I can't tell you how much I have benefited from studying the Bayeux Tapestry and the battle of Hastings at GCSE level. Totally opened things up for me.

In all seriousness. As someone who only holds a passing interest in history, the book I enjoyed most was John Davies' a History of Wales. Gives a whole new understanding of the modern idea of being British. An antidote to the toxic British nationalism of recent times possibly.

Alas. We have to learn about the good old industrial revolution..... another bad idea it seems.

[Dorcus]

Why not teach a bit of both though. The Chartists in wales is a really interesting and important part of history.

Yes I agree the Chartist movement was very compelling and I agree in an ideal world we can never have enough learning.

The problem is there are only so many hours in a day and indeed a lifetime. Also, children need to learn other subjects like Maths, English, Chemistry, Physics, Biology, Geography etc. Any school curriculum is necessarily constrained to the amount of time which can be devoted to a subject in the context of a child's concentration span. It's a bit easier with the science subjects.

In the case of History which is much more subjective and open to interpretation the issue is to fix upon the mainstream historical narrative without deviating too much into minor but no less interesting themes. There is an extremely good argument that children should learn a broader world view of History but on the interest of practicality that can be accessed as further education learning.

There's maybe a place for Welsh culture learning for small children but I would argue that the vast majority of Welsh 'history" is of no significance to an understanding of how the World developed. Therefore apart from
certain historically important aspects in the wider historical context my opinion is it should only be taught as a non compulsory subject for those who want to learn about it.

The problem about people wanting more "cultural identification" for children is that it detracts from the practicalities of delivering to them a sound education. That's not to say it has its place by the way as a voluntarily chosen further education course.

[adz-a32]

I'd love to see or take part in the Holi Celebrations.
It looks like amazing fun.

I have been to a couple and i love it!

[Wash DC Blue]

I have been to a couple and i love it!

Hope you didn't wear anything too expensive :)

[Dorcus]

Seems a bit absolute this opinion. I always have my doubts about absolutists.

Then again, I can't tell you how much I have benefited from studying the Bayeux Tapestry and the battle of Hastings at GCSE level. Totally opened things up for me.

In all seriousness. As someone who only holds a passing interest in history, the book I enjoyed most was John Davies' a History of Wales. Gives a whole new understanding of the modern idea of being British. An antidote to the toxic British nationalism of recent times possibly.

Alas. We have to learn about the good old industrial revolution..... another bad idea it seems.

Nothing absolutist about it in the slightest. It's down to the practicalities of living in a finite space. I'm sure the book you alluded to is very interesting as maybe a million others probably are on a million other chronological experiences but where does the point begin and end where something had to be included and something excluded from historical teaching?

I agree with you about the disgusting nature of British (or any other for that matter) nationalism and the Industrial Revolution was an awful indictment on how sentient beings were cruelly exploited for personal gain. However, it was a crucial aspect in explaining the development of the modern world so is of crucial value in any understanding of History.

[adz-a32]

Hope you didn't wear anything too expensive :)

of course not! though mum knew how to wash the holi powder off so my clothes were saved

[PontBlue]

You could teach them yourself. A great deal of what children learn is from their parents and grandparents

[Canton Kev]

People have skewed what I said here lads.
I got no objection to em being taught anything, however being taught a foreign topic before British history is quite wrong.

Not being taught about bonfire night =/= not being taught British history

[Divine Wright]

Nothing absolutist about it in the slightest. It's down to the practicalities of living in a finite space. I'm sure the book you alluded to is very interesting as maybe a million others probably are on a million other chronological experiences but where does the point begin and end where something had to be included and something excluded from historical teaching?

I agree with you about the disgusting nature of British (or any other for that matter) nationalism and the Industrial Revolution was an awful indictment on how sentient beings were cruelly exploited for personal gain. However, it was a crucial aspect in explaining the development of the modern world so is of crucial value in any understanding of History.

I think the point COULD be geographical. It IS very important to understand one's own history and , putting a globalist view to one side for a moment, we have only shared the last thousand or so years with England and for a number those centuries the English were an invading, occupying force. Things existed before which a majority of Welsh people are probably unaware of. These things are important in understanding our current cultural and political position within the union. Even the word "union" is a little misleading considering we were absorbed by the kingdom of England.

To say that understanding these aspects of our countries history would be comparable to learning about the history of Tonga or Myanmar in terms of its usefulness is to ignore the fact that we have our own history in Wales. That to me seems a little bit strange.

The broadness and intricacies of studying the events that shaped the modern, globalised world is way beyond your average teens ability to comprehend imo. I think it generally paints "the Brits" as the heroes of the story too. I would have found a comprehensive teaching of our countries' history much more relatable and practical. How industrialisation affected south wales. How we became a part of the UK. How our language came into decline. We have an abundance of history of our own.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Not being taught about bonfire night =/= not being taught British history

Or the Caerphilly Cheese Festival

[Dorcus]

I think the point COULD be geographical. It IS very important to understand one's own history and , putting a globalist view to one side for a moment, we have only shared the last thousand or so years with England and for a number those centuries the English we Jore an invading, occupying force. Things existed before which a majority of Welsh people are probably unaware of. These things are important in understanding our current cultural and political position within the union. Even the word "union" is a little misleading considering we were absorbed by the kingdom of England.

To say that understanding these aspects of our countries history would be comparable to learning about the history of Tonga or Myanmar in terms of its usefulness is to ignore the fact that we have our own history in Wales. That to me seems a little bit strange.

The broadness and intricacies of studying the events that shaped the modern, globalised world is way beyond your average teens ability to comprehend imo. I think it generally paints "the Brits" as the heroes of the story too. I would have found a comprehensive teaching of our countries' history much more relatable and practical. How industrialisation affected south wales. How we became a part of the UK. How our language came into decline. We have an abundance of history of our own.

It's hardly strange to compare our "history" as you put it to that of Tonga. That is the comparable value of the Welsh experience to the historical development of the World. I'm sorry you wish it to be otherwise but I can't do anything about it.

Your point about us having a lot of "history" in Wales is simply your ignorance of what History is all about. Every single part of the World has a huge chronological story to tell, most of it being of no significance to the understanding of the development of the World as it is today.

I guess you are a Welsh culurist and what you are talking about is children gaining a detailed knowledge of Welsh culture and it's chronology. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that in my opinion but I think it should be a voluntary extra curricular activity and in any case has absolutely nothing to do with History. Your stance is exactly the same as the OP's who just wants British culture as opposed to world culture taught in schools, relegating us to being a cultural ghetto. For you, substitute Welsh for British.

[Divine Wright]

It's hardly strange to compare our "history" as you put it to that of Tonga. That is the comparable value of the Welsh experience to the historical development of the World. I'm sorry you wish it to be otherwise but I can't do anything about it.

Your point about us having a lot of "history" in Wales is simply your ignorance of what History is all about. Every single part of the World has a huge chronological story to tell, most of it being of no significance to the understanding of the development of the World as it is today.

I guess you are a Welsh culurist and what you are talking about is children gaining a detailed knowledge of Welsh culture and it's chronology. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that in my opinion but I think it should be a voluntary extra curricular activity and in any case has absolutely nothing to do with History. Your stance is exactly the same as the OP's who just wants British culture as opposed to world culture taught in schools, relegating us to being a cultural ghetto. For you, substitute Welsh for British.

That seems a little bit arrogant and condescending.

I think it would be virtually impossible to substitute "Wales" for "Britain" in almost any circumstance given the situation both entities find themselves in.....and due to the influence one of these entities has had on the others current predicament. It's naive to make the comparison between me and the OP in this sense.

I know more about England than I do my own country and the OP and you are advocating for more of that.

Your History (by the way, the definition of History is "the study of past events, particularly in human affairs.") smothers anything deemed irrelevant by you.

It's important to know who you are and how you got here. Knowing that a bunch of rich, white people have been assassinated over the years and that another bunch of rich, white people conquered half the planet doesn't necessarily tell me who I am.

I think that that is the role of History. And I'm speaking as someone (not a Welsh culurist (I think that's a posh word for a bodybuilder anyhow ) as you so nicely put it) who has probably received the type of History you deem relevant. It didn't do much for me.

[Undercoverinwurzelland]

The self deprecating nature of the British is depressing at times

Yes Britain have been arseholes, no different to pretty much any other country on earth.

Only others that have had large empires I would think.

[Dorcus]

That seems a little bit arrogant and condescending.

I think it would be virtually impossible to substitute "Wales" for "Britain" in almost any circumstance given the situation both entities find themselves in.....and due to the influence one of these entities has had on the others current predicament. It's naive to make the comparison between me and the OP in this sense.

I know more about England than I do my own country and the OP and you are advocating for more of that.

Your History (by the way, the definition of History is "the study of past events, particularly in human affairs.") smothers anything deemed irrelevant by you.

It's important to know who you are and how you got here. Knowing that a bunch of rich, white people have been assassinated over the years and that another bunch of rich, white people conquered half the planet doesn't necessarily tell me who I am.

I think that that is the role of History. And I'm speaking as someone (not a Welsh culurist (I think that's a posh word for a bodybuilder anyhow ) as you so nicely put it) who has probably received the type of History you deem relevant. It didn't do much for me.

Well I don't think it was arrogant and condescending at all so let's put that one to bed.

No one is saying it's not important to know who you are and how you got here but for children to get a grip of world history they need to study the long chain of events and reasons which lead up to where the world has developed today. There's only so much information can be provided in a school curriculum and there's only so much information a child can take in. Educators need to prioritize.

It's hardly naive to compare your stance with the OP's. You both want similar outcomes but in slightly different ways. He wants to prioritize British History over World History and you want to prioritize Welsh History over what you call English History. The only reason he is on more solid ground is because English/Scottish/British History had made a major contribution to World History while Welsh History has contributed very little. There are only so many hours in a school day, just what out of the school curriculum should be taken out to accommodate your Welsh History fix? Whatever is taken out will leave your average student woefully weak on the major history of the World. We already miss out on crucial aspects of history of huge influential parts of the World. I'm just really glad my children weren't put in that position.

As for culurist, can't you recognize a typo when you see one? It was meant to be Welsh Culturist but anyway you've enlightened me because I wasn't aware a bodybuilder was also known as a Culurist.

[nugent]

Who wants to learn about welsh history pmsl.

We're a little principality with a big chip on our shoulder.

Falabalamballoballamabalay

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

These days if you say you’re British they throw you in jail.

.....if you say you're British they throw you in jail?

[Croesy Blue]

.....if you say you're British they throw you in jail?

These days if you say you’re british they throw you in jail