Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

[Taunton Blue Genie]

I'd like to see compulsory voting and proportional representation. It's the only way, at present, we can reject the idea of party politics and start electing the best people for society and the environment. In 2012 Gerard Casey wrote, “states are criminal organizations. All states, not just the obviously totalitarian or repressive ones”. I think he has a point.

What value is a vote by someone forced to cast one?

[Citizen's Nephew]

What value is a vote by someone forced to cast one?

It's of greater value than no vote at all. An example would be jury service - we have to be jurors and we have to, for a period of time, listen to and understand the facts of a case and are expected to make a decision.

Democracy is meant to be a form of governance by the whole population. In the last election, only 42% of the UK population voted. Of the people that did vote, for a large number, under our current [un-democratic] system, their vote was a waste of time because they will have no representation at a local or national level.

I am totally skeptical of the justifications of power i.e. monarchy, church, political parties - and believe we must take personal responsibility for the environment and the society we live in. Abdication of that responsibility is, to me, a gross form of societal sabotage.

I must be clear here, I am not in favour of the status quo, far from it.

We are already living through a mass extinction event. The way we, as a society and on an individual basis, live, is unsustainable and our current environmental crisis is far more important than invented left or right politics let alone political parties.

We have a responsibility to each and every one of us and the ecosystem. We have a personal responsibility to educate ourselves, communicate effectively, and work together in decision-making, and in order to do that, I believe we have to reject the status quo and the notion of political parties.

The value of our vote, right now, is not worth very much because it gives too much power to the state.

We cannot continue to expect anything other than a social and environmental disaster if just over half of a population share no collective responsibility. For the vote to be compulsory it has to be of value though, and you quite rightly raise that issue.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

It's of greater value than no vote at all. An example would be jury service - we have to be jurors and we have to, for a period of time, listen to and understand the facts of a case and are expected to make a decision.

Democracy is meant to be a form of governance by the whole population. In the last election, only 42% of the UK population voted. Of the people that did vote, for a large number, under our current [un-democratic] system, their vote was a waste of time because they will have no representation at a local or national level.

I am totally skeptical of the justifications of power i.e. monarchy, church, political parties - and believe we must take personal responsibility for the environment and the society we live in. Abdication of that responsibility is, to me, a gross form of societal sabotage.

I must be clear here, I am not in favour of the status quo, far from it.

We are already living through a mass extinction event. The way we, as a society and on an individual basis, live, is unsustainable and our current environmental crisis is far more important than invented left or right politics let alone political parties.

We have a responsibility to each and every one of us and the ecosystem. We have a personal responsibility to educate ourselves, communicate effectively, and work together in decision-making, and in order to do that, I believe we have to reject the status quo and the notion of political parties.

The value of our vote, right now, is not worth very much because it gives too much power to the state.

We cannot continue to expect anything other than a social and environmental disaster if just over half of a population share no collective responsibility. For the vote to be compulsory it has to be of value though, and you quite rightly raise that issue.

I certainly don't believe that a forced vote is of greater value than no vote at all. Those being forced to vote probably care not a jot about the outcome nor where they place an X on the ballot paper.

[Citizen's Nephew]

I certainly don't believe that a forced vote is of greater value than no vote at all. Those being forced to vote probably care not a jot about the outcome nor where they place an X on the ballot paper.

Until we force people to start taking personal responsibility for the decisions that have an impact on them, their families, colleagues, friends, and others, what hope do we have? If those being forced to vote care not a jot about the outcome or where they place an X on a ballot paper then should they reap the benefits of a society that is only in place because there are others who do care?

Of course, if these uncaring voters and 58% of non-voters in the UK end up living in a society that actively discriminates against them, their families, etc. because they just placed an X anywhere or didn't vote - maybe they'll be more appreciative of having the opportunity next time? Assuming there is a next time.

I'd ask myself this. Do I want to live in a society that forces me to actively partake in a democratic system or one that actively prevents me?

I understand the arguments for and against and I understand that there are complications. There would have to be caveats, for example, legal obligations to fulfill policies, local communities selecting local candidates that aren't affiliated to political parties, financial controls, and many more. But something has to change as the world is clearly broken.

We can all throw rocks. I may dislike many politicians and parties but I do respect the fact that they are actively putting themselves forward when the vast majority carp from the sidelines. If we could encourage and educate and admit to our institutionalisation maybe we'd have some hope.

We're just going to have to disagree on this one.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Until we force people to start taking personal responsibility for the decisions that have an impact on them, their families, colleagues, friends, and others, what hope do we have? If those being forced to vote care not a jot about the outcome or where they place an X on a ballot paper then should they reap the benefits of a society that is only in place because there are others who do care?

Of course, if these uncaring voters and 58% of non-voters in the UK end up living in a society that actively discriminates against them, their families, etc. because they just placed an X anywhere or didn't vote - maybe they'll be more appreciative of having the opportunity next time? Assuming there is a next time.

I'd ask myself this. Do I want to live in a society that forces me to actively partake in a democratic system or one that actively prevents me?

I understand the arguments for and against and I understand that there are complications. There would have to be caveats, for example, legal obligations to fulfill policies, local communities selecting local candidates that aren't affiliated to political parties, financial controls, and many more. But something has to change as the world is clearly broken.

We can all throw rocks. I may dislike many politicians and parties but I do respect the fact that they are actively putting themselves forward when the vast majority carp from the sidelines. If we could encourage and educate and admit to our institutionalisation maybe we'd have some hope.

We're just going to have to disagree on this one.

Disagreeing is not problem on here, old fruit. Our exchanges have been civil, non-personal and respectful and that's what matters.

[Citizen's Nephew]

Disagreeing is not problem on here, old fruit. Our exchanges have been civil, non-personal and respectful and that's what matters.

Appreciated