Christmas

[bobh]

When was he born then? I dont think the shepherds would have been watching their flocks in the middle of winter, so I'm guessing it was a few months either side?

I believe the latest estimates by bible scholars put the birth in autumn, but I (and they) could be wrong.
For sure, we don't mark the years as time since his birth or death, but the current system of BC / AD was decided by some clerics at the council of Nicea, in what became 325AD - but many people say that they messed things about for their own benefit

[Taunton Blue Genie]

I believe the latest estimates by bible scholars put the birth in autumn, but I (and they) could be wrong.
For sure, we don't mark the years as time since his birth or death, but the current system of BC / AD was decided by some clerics at the council of Nicea, in what became 325AD - but many people say that they messed things about for their own benefit

It is not even know what year he was born in.

[Gofer Blue]

It is not even know what year he was born in.

Why should the precise date matter anyway?

Nice throwaway comment by bobh BTW "but many people say that they messed things about for their own benefit" For what benefit might that be I wonder? And who are the many?

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Why should the precise date matter anyway?

Nice throwaway comment by bobh BTW "but many people say that they messed things about for their own benefit" For what benefit might that be I wonder? And who are the many?

Indeed. Belief is more important than facts and evidence.

[Tuerto]

Indeed. Belief is more important than facts and evidence.

It is to some people. You're the opposite.

[Gofer Blue]

Indeed. Belief is more important than facts and evidence.

Ah, so the references to Tiberius and Pontius Pilate (which would date the crucifixion to around 30AD) by the Roman historian Tacitus would not count as independent evidence in your opinion then? It's a shame that you had to resort to such a belittling comment. I know most of the posters on this MB would love to be able to prove that Jesus never even existed but somehow he inconveniently just won't go away will he!

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Ah, so the references to Tiberius and Pontius Pilate (which would date the crucifixion to around 30AD) by the Roman historian Tacitus would not count as independent evidence in your opinion then? It's a shame that you had to resort to such a belittling comment. I know most of the posters on this MB would love to be able to prove that Jesus never even existed but somehow he inconveniently just won't go away will he!

I never suggested that Jesus didn't exist, old fruit. It's just significant that fine detail about his life is so scant that two of the three major branches of Abrahamism do not consider him to have been the son of God.

[Feedback]

I never suggested that Jesus didn't exist, old fruit. It's just significant that fine detail about his life is so scant that two of the three major branches of Abrahamism do not consider him to have been the son of God.

one version is based on the one-ness of God so there absolutely cannot be God the Son, and the other version is the religion that Jesus was part of, so its hardly surprising that they don't consider him to be anything other than a follower and a blasphemer.

[Canton Kev]

Ah, so the references to Tiberius and Pontius Pilate (which would date the crucifixion to around 30AD) by the Roman historian Tacitus would not count as independent evidence in your opinion then? It's a shame that you had to resort to such a belittling comment. I know most of the posters on this MB would love to be able to prove that Jesus never even existed but somehow he inconveniently just won't go away will he!

Jesus the bloke probably did exist. Jesus the bloke who rose from the dead, walked on water, fed 500 people with a fish, cured the incurable, etc probably did not. Most people like solid proof of some sort to believe in such things so if you could produce some (actual proof and not just some writings from the bible) then I’m sure a lot of the posters on here would be rational and humble enough to accept that with solid evidence Jesus both existed and performed miracles as the son of god.

But since you’ve already handwaved away the discussion about his birth, “why should the precise date matter”, no doubt hard evidence shouldn’t matter either as long as you simply believe.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Jesus the bloke probably did exist. Jesus the bloke who rose from the dead, walked on water, fed 500 people with a fish, cured the incurable, etc probably did not. Most people like solid proof of some sort to believe in such things so if you could produce some (actual proof and not just some writings from the bible) then I’m sure a lot of the posters on here would be rational and humble enough to accept that with solid evidence Jesus both existed and performed miracles as the son of god.

But since you’ve already handwaved away the discussion about his birth, “why should the precise date matter”, no doubt hard evidence shouldn’t matter either as long as you simply believe.

Unsubstantiated stories from the Bronze Age at a time when most people were illiterate.

[Gofer Blue]

Jesus the bloke probably did exist. Jesus the bloke who rose from the dead, walked on water, fed 500 people with a fish, cured the incurable, etc probably did not. Most people like solid proof of some sort to believe in such things so if you could produce some (actual proof and not just some writings from the bible) then I’m sure a lot of the posters on here would be rational and humble enough to accept that with solid evidence Jesus both existed and performed miracles as the son of god.

But since you’ve already handwaved away the discussion about his birth, “why should the precise date matter”, no doubt hard evidence shouldn’t matter either as long as you simply believe.

I think you have missed my point. I asked why should the PRECISE date matter - I think you will find that this is one of those hair-splitting discussions which sceptics will naturally seize upon. Does it really matter if academics suggest a range of 2 to 3 years on an event which occurred two thousand years ago? There is a good summary of the evidence here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_of_birth_of_Jesus.

None of the early non-Biblical references to Jesus deny his existence. Even TBG doesn't deny it!

[Feedback]

It is not even know what year he was born in.

or indeed if he was real