Train strikes

[JamesWales]

First thing I'd say is they obviously have a right to strike and that also it is very noteworthy that this ballot had a very high turnout and a very high level of support for striking. That is pretty rare and what undermines most strikes and dooms them to fail.

That said, whilst it may be good for the workers in question (or it may not long term, if it leads to higher fares or reduced services) but I don't think it's what the country needs for two reasons.

Firstly, after decades of rising passenger numbers, they absolutely collapsed during Covid. All the workers were kept in work not because they worked in a viable industry but through government support, paid for by us (or more accurately, our children). I think that makes a difference here.

Secondly, this won't solve inflation, if anything it will make it worse. If everyone tries to get a 10% wage rise to combat inflation, then the cost of what they are selling will quite likely also rise by 10%, unless there is a miraculous increase in productivity of course, which is unlikely.

It feels a little bit 'on the wrong side of history' really. With so many working from home, demand for rail transport will very likely never again reach the peak we saw about three years ago, and this will only exacerbate that. The disruption caused has been nothing what it would have been and it does feel like a battle they will not win.

On balance, i support their right to strike, but despite having a very clear mandate I think they've made the wrong call for themselves and the country. Inflation is shit, my pay rise will be well below the level of inflation but if we want inflation to pass I think this is a pain we are going to have to ride out without expecting huge pay rises.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

First thing I'd say is they obviously have a right to strike and that also it is very noteworthy that this ballot had a very high turnout and a very high level of support for striking. That is pretty rare and what undermines most strikes and dooms them to fail.

That said, whilst it may be good for the workers in question (or it may not long term, if it leads to higher fares or reduced services) but I don't think it's what the country needs for two reasons.

Firstly, after decades of rising passenger numbers, they absolutely collapsed during Covid. All the workers were kept in work not because they worked in a viable industry but through government support, paid for by us (or more accurately, our children). I think that makes a difference here.

Secondly, this won't solve inflation, if anything it will make it worse. If everyone tries to get a 10% wage rise to combat inflation, then the cost of what they are selling will quite likely also rise by 10%, unless there is a miraculous increase in productivity of course, which is unlikely.

It feels a little bit 'on the wrong side of history' really. With so many working from home, demand for rail transport will very likely never again reach the peak we saw about three years ago, and this will only exacerbate that. The disruption caused has been nothing what it would have been and it does feel like a battle they will not win.

On balance, i support their right to strike, but despite having a very clear mandate I think they've made the wrong call for themselves and the country. Inflation is shit, my pay rise will be well below the level of inflation but if we want inflation to pass I think this is a pain we are going to have to ride out without expecting huge pay rises.

A few points, inflation is happening and has been happening for years, certainly pre COVID. The hens are coming home roost about Brexit, as well. Network Rail made 500m last year. The rich are getting richer, and the working classes are paying for it. Inflation is brought on by Tory ineptitude and greed. Pay rises should be in line with inflation, as the products are made more and more expensive. National Rail also put their fares up by 4% this year, while staff haven't had a pay rise in 4 years.

Re the wrong side of history comment, if anyone will come out on the wrong side of history, it will be the Tories and the rich. The NR boss is on 600k a year while many staff are on under 20k a year, and are getting poorer year on year.

The gap between rich and the rest in this country is growing at an alarming rate, and if we don't stop it now, we never will. The Tories want this to happen, and they want the strike to sow division.

As for Mick Lynch, refreshing to hear someone sit so many of these politicians and "experts" down. He knows his stuff, and he also doesn't have to worry about his "progression" or the rest of the garbage the MPs and other guests think about. He's doing what he thinks is right and has the facts to back it up and the lying Tory MPs have no answer apart from personal insults.

[JamesWales]

A few points, inflation is happening and has been happening for years, certainly pre COVID. The hens are coming home roost about Brexit, as well. Network Rail made 500m last year. The rich are getting richer, and the working classes are paying for it. Inflation is brought on by Tory ineptitude and greed. Pay rises should be in line with inflation, as the products are made more and more expensive. National Rail also put their fares up by 4% this year, while staff haven't had a pay rise in 4 years.

Re the wrong side of history comment, if anyone will come out on the wrong side of history, it will be the Tories and the rich. The NR boss is on 600k a year while many staff are on under 20k a year, and are getting poorer year on year.

The gap between rich and the rest in this country is growing at an alarming rate, and if we don't stop it now, we never will. The Tories want this to happen, and they want the strike to sow division.

As for Mick Lynch, refreshing to hear someone sit so many of these politicians and "experts" down. He knows his stuff, and he also doesn't have to worry about his "progression" or the rest of the garbage the MPs and other guests think about. He's doing what he thinks is right and has the facts to back it up and the lying Tory MPs have no answer apart from personal insults.

Sorry, but there's a lot of populist left-wing tropes and inaccuracies here.

1 / The wrong side of history comment is a reference to the fact that train use has fallen off a cliff (due to covid) and will in all probability never be the same again. If people want to work from home more, the result is a declining public transport. It's one of the reasons I caution against WFH.

2 / Of course, inflation always occurs, normally at a far lower level than now however.

3 / The wealth gap depends on how you look at it, but the average wage and personal tax allowance has risen far quicker under the current administration than the last one. The top rate of tax is also higher (45% v 40%) which rather undermines your party political point about the Tories wanting the gap to grow etc. That said, the pandemic and WFH is exacerbating the wealth gap considerably.

4 / Pay shouldn't be in line with inflation, it should ideally be above it. But sometimes inflation spikes, typically due to wars or other 'acts of god' and when it's caused by that its sometimes the case that we need to ride it out. Countering it with 10% pay rises across the board will probably exacerbate the problem.

5 / I agree, Mick Lynch is impressive, as was Bob Crow, but he has a job to try and protect his members, the govt' has to try and protect the entire country, and the two don't always align. Re Brexit - the RMT were prominent leave campaigners.

6 / Network Rail is publicly owned - what they make in profit goes back into the railways. The dispute is with Train operators.

Happy to be corrected on any of that. The reality, unfortunately is that very very little of the current inflation rate is caused by UK based policy decisions and thus much of it cannot be solved in that way. Political opponents will exploit the situation, but if you want the problem solved, you have to diagnose it properly. Inflation is happening near everywhere, so clearly it isn't caused by the Tories.

Maybe the union will win. Maybe it won't, but giving the country a 10% pay rise to solve a temporary spike in inflation is not the answer, unfortunately. I wish it was, but it isn't.

[HiVis]

Sorry, but there's a lot of populist left-wing tropes and inaccuracies here.

1 / The wrong side of history comment is a reference to the fact that train use has fallen off a cliff (due to covid) and will in all probability never be the same again. If people want to work from home more, the result is a declining public transport. It's one of the reasons I caution against WFH.

2 / Of course, inflation always occurs, normally at a far lower level than now however.

3 / The wealth gap depends on how you look at it, but the average wage and personal tax allowance has risen far quicker under the current administration than the last one. The top rate of tax is also higher (45% v 40%) which rather undermines your party political point about the Tories wanting the gap to grow etc. That said, the pandemic and WFH is exacerbating the wealth gap considerably.

4 / Pay shouldn't be in line with inflation, it should ideally be above it. But sometimes inflation spikes, typically due to wars or other 'acts of god' and when it's caused by that its sometimes the case that we need to ride it out. Countering it with 10% pay rises across the board will probably exacerbate the problem.

5 / I agree, Mick Lynch is impressive, as was Bob Crow, but he has a job to try and protect his members, the govt' has to try and protect the entire country, and the two don't always align. Re Brexit - the RMT were prominent leave campaigners.

6 / Network Rail is publicly owned - what they make in profit goes back into the railways. The dispute is with Train operators.

Happy to be corrected on any of that. The reality, unfortunately is that very very little of the current inflation rate is caused by UK based policy decisions and thus much of it cannot be solved in that way. Political opponents will exploit the situation, but if you want the problem solved, you have to diagnose it properly. Inflation is happening near everywhere, so clearly it isn't caused by the Tories.

Maybe the union will win. Maybe it won't, but giving the country a 10% pay rise to solve a temporary spike in inflation is not the answer, unfortunately. I wish it was, but it isn't.

I have a degree of sympathy for a lot of what you have written but the bit in bold is a little wide of the mark. Not everything that is triggering inflation is caused by Ukraine or the pandemic, and it is wrong to try and change the narrative to suggest that everything is down to external factors. It is not. This Tory government isn't absolved of all blame, and must take its (rather large) fair share.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

Sorry, but there's a lot of populist left-wing tropes and inaccuracies here.

1 / The wrong side of history comment is a reference to the fact that train use has fallen off a cliff (due to covid) and will in all probability never be the same again. If people want to work from home more, the result is a declining public transport. It's one of the reasons I caution against WFH.

2 / Of course, inflation always occurs, normally at a far lower level than now however.

3 / The wealth gap depends on how you look at it, but the average wage and personal tax allowance has risen far quicker under the current administration than the last one. The top rate of tax is also higher (45% v 40%) which rather undermines your party political point about the Tories wanting the gap to grow etc. That said, the pandemic and WFH is exacerbating the wealth gap considerably.

4 / Pay shouldn't be in line with inflation, it should ideally be above it. But sometimes inflation spikes, typically due to wars or other 'acts of god' and when it's caused by that its sometimes the case that we need to ride it out. Countering it with 10% pay rises across the board will probably exacerbate the problem.

5 / I agree, Mick Lynch is impressive, as was Bob Crow, but he has a job to try and protect his members, the govt' has to try and protect the entire country, and the two don't always align. Re Brexit - the RMT were prominent leave campaigners.

6 / Network Rail is publicly owned - what they make in profit goes back into the railways. The dispute is with Train operators.

Happy to be corrected on any of that. The reality, unfortunately is that very very little of the current inflation rate is caused by UK based policy decisions and thus much of it cannot be solved in that way. Political opponents will exploit the situation, but if you want the problem solved, you have to diagnose it properly. Inflation is happening near everywhere, so clearly it isn't caused by the Tories.

Maybe the union will win. Maybe it won't, but giving the country a 10% pay rise to solve a temporary spike in inflation is not the answer, unfortunately. I wish it was, but it isn't.

We are told to not ask for more pay, while Boris is going to remove caps on the banker's bonuses.

We all need to "suck it up", while MPs pay has increased by 20% in the last 10 years. Network Rail and rail executives take home millions. Most of the train companies make millions, and they are all privately owned.

Re wealth inequality: https://www.ft.com/content/d52743ca-...f-8281230a21b5
That's the FT, not some left wing rag.

UK inflation rates have been 2.5%, 2.3%, 1.74%, 0.99% and now 10% plus. The train staff have had a 0% increase in this time. They're also threatened with fire and rehire. If NR are publicly owned, and make 500m profit, surely they can pay their staff a decent wage?

The Tories are happy to give 11bn and plus to their mates. They've wasted billions more on mismanagement. Rishi Sunak is absolute as useful as a chocolate fire guard when it comes to the finances of this country. They have done nothing to help the economy, only feed off it like vultures. Which is Sunak's MO. That's how he made his money in the first place.

if anyone votes Tory in 2024, they need their heads checking or they're filthy rich. And by the way, DML is on your side.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Pay shouldn't be in line with inflation, it should ideally be above it. But sometimes inflation spikes, typically due to wars or other 'acts of god' and when it's caused by that its sometimes the case that we need to ride it out. Countering it with 10% pay rises across the board will probably exacerbate the problem.

Yet for around a decade, most low paid workers have never had a rise in line with inflation. Very few who work in the public sector have had rises in line with inflation. They were victims of Osborne and Cameron trying to save the public purse. Millions of people have seen costs rise while their wages haven't matched that for a decade or so. Now inflation is going through the roof while wages don't catch up. FFS, how much longer to working people have to "ride this out"?

[Pedro de la Rosa]

Yet for around a decade, most low paid workers have never had a rise in line with inflation. Very few who work in the public sector have had rises in line with inflation. They were victims of Osborne and Cameron trying to save the public purse. Millions of people have seen costs rise while their wages haven't matched that for a decade or so. Now inflation is going through the roof while wages don't catch up. FFS, how much longer to working people have to "ride this out"?

Forever. Just suck it up and take the scraps.

[JamesWales]

Yet for around a decade, most low paid workers have never had a rise in line with inflation. Very few who work in the public sector have had rises in line with inflation. They were victims of Osborne and Cameron trying to save the public purse. Millions of people have seen costs rise while their wages haven't matched that for a decade or so. Now inflation is going through the roof while wages don't catch up. FFS, how much longer to working people have to "ride this out"?

Well, sorry to bring some facts to the table, but the minimum wage was £6.19 in 2012. It's £9.50 now. Thats an increase of 53%.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation..._Wage_Act_1998

We can add a little from the last few months, but Inflation from 2012 to 2021 was 25%.
https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/mone...ion-calculator

No one disputes the global financial crisis, then a pandemic then a war in Europe don't impact on things. They do. It's been fkn tough, but the solution isn't to give everyone 10% more money. You may want to support the union on ideological ground but you know that in your heart it isn't the answer for the country as a whole.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Well, sorry to bring some facts to the table, but the minimum wage was £6.19 in 2012. It's £9.50 now. Thats an increase of 53%.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation..._Wage_Act_1998

We can add a little from the last few months, but Inflation from 2012 to 2021 was 25%.
https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/mone...ion-calculator.

For a start, let's not start putting words in my mouth. Not at any stage did I say to give everyone 10%, neither did I offer support for the union. What I did ask was how much longer have working people got to "ride it out". You were rather reluctant to offer an opinion on this.

As for your stats on the minimum wage, good that there has been such an increase, but given that the minimum wage was so low to begin with, it needed to grow quickly. It also brings people into paying income tax, even with the rise in the personal allowance, so give with one hand, take away with the other.

I notice you had no response to public sector workers, nurses, teachers etc who have had their wages virtually frozen for a decade. Do you support them in their struggles against inflation or not?

[dml1954]

A few points, inflation is happening and has been happening for years, certainly pre COVID. The hens are coming home roost about Brexit, as well. Network Rail made 500m last year. The rich are getting richer, and the working classes are paying for it. Inflation is brought on by Tory ineptitude and greed. Pay rises should be in line with inflation, as the products are made more and more expensive. National Rail also put their fares up by 4% this year, while staff haven't had a pay rise in 4 years.

Re the wrong side of history comment, if anyone will come out on the wrong side of history, it will be the Tories and the rich. The NR boss is on 600k a year while many staff are on under 20k a year, and are getting poorer year on year.

The gap between rich and the rest in this country is growing at an alarming rate, and if we don't stop it now, we never will. The Tories want this to happen, and they want the strike to sow division.

As for Mick Lynch, refreshing to hear someone sit so many of these politicians and "experts" down. He knows his stuff, and he also doesn't have to worry about his "progression" or the rest of the garbage the MPs and other guests think about. He's doing what he thinks is right and has the facts to back it up and the lying Tory MPs have no answer apart from personal insults.

This is all just crackers. For the last decade or so the country has had low inflation and very low interest rates, from which everyone in the country has benefitted, even those people who rely on savings rates for part of their income. Mortgages and loans have never been so cheap up until very recently. Now, mainly due to global pressures, outside the control of most Governments, a correction is taking place and inflation is temporarily high. Cue Labour and other Socialsts screaming like stuck pigs and Unions claiming 10% plus pay rises for their members. They are back in their element, having not been able to use this card for many years. Opportunist policies on the hoof I call it. Next month's fish and chip paper, as they move on to moan incessantly about something else.

[North Cardiff Blue]

This is all just crackers. For the last decade or so the country has had low inflation and very low interest rates, from which everyone in the country has benefitted, even those people who rely on savings rates for part of their income. Mortgages and loans have never been so cheap up until very recently. Now, mainly due to global pressures, outside the control of most Governments, a correction is taking place and inflation is temporarily high. Cue Labour and other Socialsts screaming like stuck pigs and Unions claiming 10% plus pay rises for their members. They are back in their element, having not been able to use this card for many years. Opportunist policies on the hoof I call it. Next month's fish and chip paper, as they move on to moan incessantly about something else.

It does make a change from he should resign for having a drink and saying goodbye to someone in work for six minutes.