food prices to rise

[lardy]

ask anyone in the queue at a food bank if they would prefer to have benefits money or access to a food bank.

Ewww Tories don't talk to them. Ewww.

[Feedback]

ask anyone in the queue at a food bank if they would prefer to have benefits money or access to a food bank.

I don't disagree. But that is not what I asked.

You, and a few others, make out that the use of food banks is bad but the use of benefits and the welfare state is good. In a wealthy nation such as the UK, the need for either is criminal. Successive governments of all colours have failed to address the problem, and once again we're back to the orphan crushing machine.

[Feedback]

Food banks do not subsidise income. They provide food. Food you do not choose but are given. Income from unemployment or disability payments are cash and allow the recipient to manage their cash flow accordingly i.e they have independence. This is a very important part of people's lives and something I'm sure you take for granted.

Would you be prepared to be paid in food as opposed to cash? Stop with this notion that food is a subsidy to income.

And what on earth does 'orphan crushing machine' mean? I don't understand.

when I said income I meant wealth, the ability to feed yourself etc, and not necessarily disposable cash. you have also missed the point being made - why is it ok to receive benefits but not parcels from foodbanks? or let me put it another way, why is the use of benefits seen as being acceptable when we know the use of foodbanks is not?

read up about the orphan crushing machine, its a well known trope on social media.

[Feedback]

We are back to feck the poor let’s line the richest in societies pockets again. Covid contracts for donors for one. Level up be buggered.

is that what you have taken from what I have posted? you've completely ignored the message that here in the UK, one of the richest nations on the planet, people still needs benefits, welfare and foodbanks to ensure they have the basics required of life.

maybe you need to stop being so party political and start looking and what is being written.

[Croesy Blue]

I don't disagree. But that is not what I asked.

You, and a few others, make out that the use of food banks is bad but the use of benefits and the welfare state is good. In a wealthy nation such as the UK, the need for either is criminal. Successive governments of all colours have failed to address the problem, and once again we're back to the orphan crushing machine.

Haven’t foodbanks only started being funded by the government with the last 12 months? And even then it’s only a subsidy backed up by donations etc?

People say they’re bad because an increase in the number of foodbanks correlates with the number of people living in poverty.

[Feedback]

Haven’t foodbanks only started being funded by the government with the last 12 months? And even then it’s only a subsidy backed up by donations etc?

People say they’re bad because an increase in the number of foodbanks correlates with the number of people living in poverty.

yet the same people say the welfare state is good. Why is that? In both cases the individual is reliant on a handout from a third party to ensure a meagre existence.

So rather than waxing lyrical about which party does this or does not do this...why don't we try and solve the root cause so people did not need either, because in a nation like the UK, we surely have enough for all to live very comfortably.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

is that what you have taken from what I have posted? you've completely ignored the message that here in the UK, one of the richest nations on the planet, people still needs benefits, welfare and foodbanks to ensure they have the basics required of life.

maybe you need to stop being so party political and start looking and what is being written.

There will always be people who go hungry and rely on benefits

Even if this perfect system of capitalism you espouse worked then people will always have life challenges that mean they are needy

It's how we help them that is the issue

Benefits will always be needed .......the tories have cut the welfare state right back on ideology not reason

[Rjk]

I don't disagree. But that is not what I asked.

You, and a few others, make out that the use of food banks is bad but the use of benefits and the welfare state is good. In a wealthy nation such as the UK, the need for either is criminal. Successive governments of all colours have failed to address the problem, and once again we're back to the orphan crushing machine.

no, the number of people who rely on welfare to survive is also a bad thing, when did I say it was good?
it's essentially government subsidy of businesses and rich business owners by the back door, we effectively subsidise the wages of a large proportion of the workforce allowing the owners to pay less.

[Feedback]

There will always be people who go hungry and rely on benefits

Even if this perfect system of capitalism you espouse worked then people will always have life challenges that mean they are needy

It's how we help them that is the issue

Benefits will always be needed .......the tories have cut the welfare state right back on ideology not reason

where have I mentioned capitalism in this thread?

I have stated quite simply that UK poverty is a bad thing, and successive governments of all colours have failed to eradicate it. The Tories approach things differently than Labour, and neither party has the monopoly on choosing the right way all of the time.

Simply put, the welfare state has failed to eradicate poverty, and the use of foodbanks is no different that receiving benefits, as the individual is reliant on someone else. To pretend otherwise is folly.

[ninian opinian]

is that what you have taken from what I have posted? you've completely ignored the message that here in the UK, one of the richest nations on the planet, people still needs benefits, welfare and foodbanks to ensure they have the basics required of life.

maybe you need to stop being so party political and start looking and what is being written.

Everything revolves around politics though doesn’t it. Tories look after their own only and have been in power for the majority of time. I’m not saying labour would be any better and I agree, we need radical change in this country to ensure everyone is given a fair chance and that austerity is not reimposed.

[Feedback]

no, the number of people who rely on welfare to survive is also a bad thing, when did I say it was good?
it's essentially government subsidy of businesses and rich business owners by the back door, we effectively subsidise the wages of a large proportion of the workforce allowing the owners to pay less.

where do we allow the owners to pay less? This is dogmatic bullshit. Any business owner will tell you it is cheaper to retain good well trained staff than it is to hire someone new. To keep your staff you need good pay, good conditions and good prospects. It is that simple. At before you become apoplectic with rage, that is not to say that there are employers out there who take the piss - of course there are. But most employers know it is better to retain staff than to hire new staff.

Perhaps if we taxed businesses less, there would be more cash available for workers. Businesses will pay PAYE, NI, VAT, corporation tax and business rates as standard. Most businesses will pay between 40-50% of the cash they collect in taxes in one form or another. That's almost like communism (look it up, not even the East Germans taxed their businesses as highly). But this does not suit the narrative that businesses cannot pay their workers more - often in cases they just cannot because on one hand you have the customer wanting cheaper prices, but on the other hand you want workers with greater pay, and in the middle you have the treasury who takes what is wants.

[Feedback]

Everything revolves around politics though doesn’t it. Tories look after their own only and have been in power for the majority of time. I’m not saying labour would be any better and I agree, we need radical change in this country to ensure everyone is given a fair chance and that austerity is not reimposed.

well it should not, as party politics has failed. anyone who blindly follows a political party or a political ideology is part of the problem. Each and every situation is different and no one philosophy has the answers to each problem, if it did, then every government in the world would be an exponent of that philosophy.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

where have I mentioned capitalism in this thread?

I have stated quite simply that UK poverty is a bad thing, and successive governments of all colours have failed to eradicate it. The Tories approach things differently than Labour, and neither party has the monopoly on choosing the right way all of the time.

Simply put, the welfare state has failed to eradicate poverty, and the use of foodbanks is no different that receiving benefits, as the individual is reliant on someone else. To pretend otherwise is folly.

You are a capitalist , you are always going on about the marketplace, especially in health

As for welfare its a safety net for those less well off ......pensioners for example , the disabled , those with ill health

It's not there to eradicate poverty , poverty will always exist

But this lot really are screwing the poor

[Croesy Blue]

yet the same people say the welfare state is good. Why is that? In both cases the individual is reliant on a handout from a third party to ensure a meagre existence.

So rather than waxing lyrical about which party does this or does not do this...why don't we try and solve the root cause so people did not need either, because in a nation like the UK, we surely have enough for all to live very comfortably.

Yes and the current government have been in place for how long and it keeps just getting worse?

And the brexit that the current government also brought about due to inner party fighting has also made it worse.

There’s no party politics here just criticising a government that have been in power so long they can’t just blame things on the old guys any more.

[Feedback]

You are a capitalist

there is a place for private ownership.

you are always going on about the marketplace, especially in health

that's because a well structured market can work for the benefit of the people. The German and French healthcare systems use private sector delivery, it remains free at point of use dependant on need, and both have better outcomes than the UK overall.

As for welfare its a safety net for those less well off ......pensioners for example , the disabled , those with ill health

agreed, but that is not the point I'm making

It's not there to eradicate poverty , poverty will always exist

why should it exist? surely the aim is to make sure everyone has the best education, the best healthcare and all the basics in life without having to rely on welfare, benefits, foodbanks or any other kind of handout.

But this lot really are screwing the poor

are they - it seems to me that they are screwing the country as a whole, they're not singling out the poor

[Feedback]

Yes and the current government have been in place for how long and it keeps just getting worse?

is it getting worse or has poverty always been there, we are just better at recording it / redefining what it means?

And the brexit that the current government also brought about due to inner party fighting has also made it worse.

definitely. Brexit has not helped one bit and anyone who thought it was a good idea should really have a word with themselves.

There’s no party politics here just criticising a government that have been in power so long they can’t just blame things on the old guys any more.

are you equally as critical of Welsh Labours failure to keep the Welsh economic performance on a par with even the worst performing parts of England? We have more tools in our arsenal than any English region and we have better funding, yet we fall further behind on just about every socio-economic measure. You cannot have a strong society without a strong economy. In that respect would you agree that Welsh Labour have failed the Welsh population in a much greater way that the Conservatives have the the UK as a whole?

[WJ99mobile]

You are a capitalist , you are always going on about the marketplace, especially in health

As for welfare its a safety net for those less well off ......pensioners for example , the disabled , those with ill health

It's not there to eradicate poverty , poverty will always exist

But this lot really are screwing the poor

But should we subsidise people's poor choices?

I'm from a poor background. I have poor family and family on benefits.

I have family that already could not afford to provide adequately whilst on benefits but still chose to have more kids, continued to smoke and continued to make choices that puts them in a worse situation that they should have been.

As for providing food - it does take away the independence and I do appreciate Citizen's Nephew's posts. But on the flip side (if it was food boxes or vouchers instead of food banks) it not only shields people from the inflation of food we can also ensure that the families particularly the kids can have more nutritious and beneficial food rather than sacks of chicken nuggets and crispy pancakes.

[WJ99mobile]

Higher wages and cheaper items. That's quite a wish list.

Why isn't every country doing this?

The UK wont be the last to leave the EU

[Rjk]

where do we allow the owners to pay less? This is dogmatic bullshit. Any business owner will tell you it is cheaper to retain good well trained staff than it is to hire someone new. To keep your staff you need good pay, good conditions and good prospects. It is that simple. At before you become apoplectic with rage, that is not to say that there are employers out there who take the piss - of course there are. But most employers know it is better to retain staff than to hire new staff.

Perhaps if we taxed businesses less, there would be more cash available for workers. Businesses will pay PAYE, NI, VAT, corporation tax and business rates as standard. Most businesses will pay between 40-50% of the cash they collect in taxes in one form or another. That's almost like communism (look it up, not even the East Germans taxed their businesses as highly). But this does not suit the narrative that businesses cannot pay their workers more - often in cases they just cannot because on one hand you have the customer wanting cheaper prices, but on the other hand you want workers with greater pay, and in the middle you have the treasury who takes what is wants.

of course we allow business to pay less.

there are people in this country who work full time, sometimes more than one job but still require help from the government to get by.
this is effectively subsidising the businesses to allow them to pay a wage that is less than what is required to live on.

[WJ99mobile]

Thinking about agriculture, there aren't enough workers out there to harvest crops. We've been heavily reliant on migrant workers as they've been prepared to work for the wages on offer. Wages will need to rise if we're to attract British workers to these places, where many are not a reasonable commute away. That'll result in food costs rising. I'm interested to find out if wages of lorry drivers has gone up as demand has far exceeded supply. That'll also result in costs rising.

Meanwhile, those on minimum wage jobs and low incomes will suffer the most.

A portion of this is due to COVID and furlough though - as seen in all sectors and jumping to more sociable jobs etc.

Admittedly there has been a big impact of Brexit but the Government can have an impact on that with various levers

[Rjk]

ok n related news, schools are told to expect food shortages

https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/wholesal...659227.article

[Mr Soul '68]

Without wanting to detract from the point you are making, the Tories made it far easier for people to access foodbanks. This has caused a significant uplift in their use. There are undoubtedly other factors

In a relatively wealthy nation like the UK there should be no need for foodbanks whatsoever

[Croesy Blue]

is it getting worse or has poverty always been there, we are just better at recording it / redefining what it means?

definitely. Brexit has not helped one bit and anyone who thought it was a good idea should really have a word with themselves.

are you equally as critical of Welsh Labours failure to keep the Welsh economic performance on a par with even the worst performing parts of England? We have more tools in our arsenal than any English region and we have better funding, yet we fall further behind on just about every socio-economic measure. You cannot have a strong society without a strong economy. In that respect would you agree that Welsh Labour have failed the Welsh population in a much greater way that the Conservatives have the the UK as a whole?

It’s getting worse by every measurable metric.

I don’t live in wales, how much of an effect do the welsh government really have? The Welsh labour party don’t seem to have done a great job but I think Westminster is just as much to blame if not more. It seems to just be party political point scoring from you which seems ironic after what you’ve said in this thread.

[Croesy Blue]

A portion of this is due to COVID and furlough though - as seen in all sectors and jumping to more sociable jobs etc.

The pingdemic bollocks was used as a smokescreen, maybe the most obvious excuse ever used.

Covid has been a very useful distraction for how shite brexit has actually been.

You can try and defend is as much as you want but it without doubt on of the worst decisions ever made by a wealthy nation.

[WJ99mobile]

The pingdemic bollocks was used as a smokescreen, maybe the most obvious excuse ever used.

Covid has been a very useful distraction for how shite brexit has actually been.

You can try and defend is as much as you want but it without doubt on of the worst decisions ever made by a wealthy nation.

It's not just the UK that's experiencing HGV driver shortages either according to reports